FieryPhantom Posted December 8, 2008 Share #1 Posted December 8, 2008 I just picked this 101st grouping along with an 82 airborne group I will be posting. The oval is modern and glows under black light, the wings are pinback and sterling marked english made? The photo of the 101st trooper reads on the back Acheen Austria july 16, 1945. The seller said he got these from the vets one from a 101st vet and the other from an 82nd vet. I know there are a lot of put together groups and wanted to make sure these are not. If you need more photos feel free to ask. Thank you for any advice or opinions Phillip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 8, 2008 Share #2 Posted December 8, 2008 The oval is Viet Nam era.Not saying the vet didnt pick it up later but its Nam era. ROn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted December 8, 2008 Share #3 Posted December 8, 2008 Well, the 101st patch is definately post-war. The wings experts will need to see the back of the wings to make a call. The vet very well may have worn those wings at reunions, you never know. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryPhantom Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted December 8, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryPhantom Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted December 8, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 8, 2008 Share #6 Posted December 8, 2008 Wings are US made. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian e Posted December 8, 2008 Share #7 Posted December 8, 2008 the wings look late 40's to mid 50's to me brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenm Posted December 8, 2008 Share #8 Posted December 8, 2008 What makes these wings late 40's to mid 50's?????? And why is that 101st patch post-war as opposed to a wartime-made one of the same variety?????? I love some of the bold statements given on here sometimes.... Cheers, Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currahee506 Posted December 8, 2008 Share #9 Posted December 8, 2008 Here we go again.... Bold statements ?? The 101st patch is postwar. Period. Why? Start with the 'sqiggly eyes' on the eagle - dead giveaway. If you're going to buy 101st items, educate yourself first. Check out Mark Bando's Trigger Time - it's a good start. http://www.101airborneww2.com/eaglepatchcorner.html Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currahee506 Posted December 8, 2008 Share #10 Posted December 8, 2008 Here we go again.... Bold statements ?? The 101st patch is postwar. Period. Why? Start with the 'sqiggly eyes' on the eagle - dead giveaway. If you're going to buy 101st items, educate yourself first. Check out Mark Bando's Trigger Time - it's a good start. http://www.101airborneww2.com/eaglepatchcorner.html Rich Also - would need to see a clearer picture of the back of the wing to make a better call. Oval is DEFINATELY post WWII. Again, for examples of WWII 101st AB ovals, check out Bando's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenm Posted December 8, 2008 Share #11 Posted December 8, 2008 Here we go again.... Bold statements ?? The 101st patch is postwar. Period. Why? Start with the 'sqiggly eyes' on the eagle - dead giveaway. If you're going to buy 101st items, educate yourself first. Check out Mark Bando's Trigger Time - it's a good start. http://www.101airborneww2.com/eaglepatchcorner.html Rich Rich, I do bother to read Mark's website and can therefore quote from his description of "type 10's" and "type 14's" (whichever one this is): "All Type 10's are characterized by a scribble eye-the details of which seem to be rendered with single strands of thread. Since the company which produced these in WW2, continued in production until probably 1968 (when merrowed edge Type 14s were introduced), these types create a lot of confusion. In most cases, unless you have provenance on a particular patch of this type, it is impossible to determine if it was issued during WW2 or much later." "This type [14] is worth illustrating and discussing, because it is often confused with the Type 10 scribble eye patch. Type 14's have a more solid line at the BOTTOM of the eagle's EYE. This type eye continued into the postwar Ft. Campbell era as a cut edge patch, with a distinct concentric raised area around the inner border of the shield and tab. In 1968, it became the most commonly produced merrowed edge type, and the same company has produced subdued variants, still recognizable by the eye design, to this day. Back to WW2, I have only acquired about 5 of these from WW2 vets, causing me to do two things: 1: I've assigned it a high number for relative WW2 era rarity 2: I've theorized that production on these began late in WW2, but as noted above, this company resumed production in the postwar years and has continued to the present. Of the examples illustrated above, the left version has a very wide shield, like an oversized Type 9, and a very arced Airborne tab-this example came from 502nd medic Ed Zelonis. The normal sized example at right is from Robert Urge, who changed his name to Bob Burgess after WW2 (B/501). I've also seen a normal sized version, attributed to Col. X.B. Cox of the 81st Airborne AA/AT Bn., although I didn't get it directly from him. Also Frank Gregg of E/501 provided an example which I believe to be of WW2 origins although Col. Gregg remained in service until the late 1960s." Even the Wise One himself says that both types were produced in WWII as well as post-war - so how anyone can state that a type 10 or a type 14 is "definitely post-war" is beyond me. Nuff said! Cheers, Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted December 8, 2008 Share #12 Posted December 8, 2008 The wings are WW2.... the grouping is a put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryPhantom Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted December 9, 2008 Thanks for every ones opinion's, by the way Rich I frequently vist Mr. Bando's web page and have several of his books so I do keep myself educated thats why I questioned this when a friend picked these groupings up for me. I do find that it does help to have friends on the forum to verify my opinion, I really appreciate everyones help. There is always more to learn from this website and other collectors. Glen thank you for the clarification on the 101st patch, type 10 and 14. Best Regards, Phillip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted December 9, 2008 Share #14 Posted December 9, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #15 Posted December 9, 2008 Not that it necessarily disqualifies the ribbons or wings from belonging to a 101st combat vet, but I find it a little strange that his European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign ribbon has four campaign stars but no arrowhead device and the jump wings do not have any bronze stars. The 101st only participated in four campaigns in WWII and received combat assault credit for two of them, Normandy and Rhineland (Market Garden). I know every member of the 101st did not participate in the actual combat jumps, but it seems unlikely that a combat infantry parachutist who served in all four campaigns did not jump in at least one of them. And parachutists loved to display that fact by wearing the arrowhead device and stars on their wings. Their absence makes me a little suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currahee506 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #16 Posted December 9, 2008 The wings are WW2.... the grouping is a put together. 101combatvet is right on the money. It is a put-togther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currahee506 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #17 Posted December 9, 2008 Not that it necessarily disqualifies the ribbons or wings from belonging to a 101st combat vet, but I find it a little strange that his European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign ribbon has four campaign stars but no arrowhead device and the jump wings do not have any bronze stars. The 101st only participated in four campaigns in WWII and received combat assault credit for two of them, Normandy and Rhineland (Market Garden). I know every member of the 101st did not participate in the actual combat jumps, but it seems unlikely that a combat infantry parachutist who served in all four campaigns did not jump in at least one of them. And parachutists loved to display that fact by wearing the arrowhead device and stars on their wings. Their absence makes me a little suspicious. Of all the wings I have seen over the years, whether in private collections or belonging to Veterans - I have yet to see a pair of wings with an arrowhead on them. Campaign stars - yes, many of them. My buddy has 43 101st Airborne Ikes from WWII - not one jacket has a pair of wings with an arrowhead on it. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker502 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #18 Posted December 9, 2008 I have a 4 pocket jacket from a member of the 502nd. I have a photo of him wearing the said jacket after Normandy and he wears nothing but his jump wing badge. This man was able to wear at least 3 ribbons , DUC and CIB and did not wear any of them. I personally get scared by uniforms that are by the book, as it's usually a hump job artist reading the book to make the uniform. I am not critical of not having stars or arrowheads on the EAME ribbon, I really don't think the average soldier was as worried about stars as collectors are. Here is the mentioned uniform.. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker502 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #19 Posted December 9, 2008 Here's the side Brit made eagle and stripes. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkyasundevil Posted December 9, 2008 Share #20 Posted December 9, 2008 Wings with original arrowheads and stars attached are scarce and are NOT the norm. I have two sets of wings that belonged to Gordon Yates of H/506. The set on his ike jacket has two stars and the set that is loose has two stars and an arrowhead. The wing shown in this thread is of the same type that I have seen turn up in many 505/82nd Airborne groupings for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted December 9, 2008 Share #21 Posted December 9, 2008 What book? I have a 4 pocket jacket from a member of the 502nd. I have a photo of him wearing the said jacket after Normandy and he wears nothing but his jump wing badge. This man was able to wear at least 3 ribbons , DUC and CIB and did not wear any of them. I personally get scared by uniforms that are by the book, as it's usually a hump job artist reading the book to make the uniform. I am not critical of not having stars or arrowheads on the EAME ribbon, I really don't think the average soldier was as worried about stars as collectors are. Here is the mentioned uniform.. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkyasundevil Posted December 9, 2008 Share #22 Posted December 9, 2008 Here's a couple shots of Gordon Yates' cut down 4 pocket class A. Notice he crossed stitched the British type B-1 patch, Allied Airborne and rank on himself. The 506 DI's are Austrian made and check out the dog tag chain stitched around the cap oval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker502 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #23 Posted December 9, 2008 What book? The uniform regulations in book form, and or officer's guide which shows the proper placement of ribbons and devices. and you can also look at the stitch nazi's guide to collecting fake memorablia and uniforms. If its not by the book then I'm not buying it. signed..... NO NAME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted December 9, 2008 Share #24 Posted December 9, 2008 Sparky..... nice 506th uniform..... the wings on the jacket are clutch back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightenIrish35 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #25 Posted December 9, 2008 Here's a couple shots of Gordon Yates' cut down 4 pocket class A. Notice he crossed stitched the British type B-1 patch, Allied Airborne and rank on himself. The 506 DI's are Austrian made and check out the dog tag chain stitched around the cap oval. IM IN LOVE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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