mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2018 Fresh from the market. A WWII S&W Victory Model. This is what I know: Parkerized style (phosphorus?) finish. There are some British proofs and other markings on the right side. Top strap is stamped 8 U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D. Frame, cylinder and barrel all share the same serial number V 3150xx. The crane has the numbers 56556 and the grips are 317xxx. The left side of the frame has the VEGA SAC CA. import stamp.(?) The hammer and trigger are case hardened and the ejector tube is blued. The grips are a little dinged up but the gun looks incredibly nice. In fact, I was shocked to see how nice it was. I have questions. Does the import stamp hurt? Is it normal for the crane numbers not to match the serial numbers? I'm assuming a .38 special won't work. I have no plans for shooting it. Can you help me decipher the numbers with the broad arrows? Did the importer refinish or have them refinished? Anything you'd guys like to add or help me with my schooling, please do so. Charles Flick, please add your thoughts too. If you'd like any other specific pictures, just ask. I'm going to be away from my computer for the next few hours so I'll respond as soon as possible. Thanks for all the assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray42 Posted October 21, 2018 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2018 I think you may have a very good one there, its parkerized so it's likely late war. The markings are unusual, I think I normally see "US Property" and I believe that I have heard that the GHD means that it was actually issued to the Army/Navy, probably navy. Additionally measure the barrel length, it seems to me that this is longer then the normal 4" barrel that I normally encounter so it may be a more uncommon variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 21, 2018 Share #3 Posted October 21, 2018 Does the barrel stamp say .38 Smith and Wesson?...The lend lease to common wealth were chambered in .38 S&W caliber typically and the US issue are .38 SPECIAL The two will not interchange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixbayonets! Posted October 21, 2018 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2018 I believe the Broad Arrow markings D /I\ D are for Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 21, 2018 Share #5 Posted October 21, 2018 Some quick info The S&W M&P military revolvers produced from 1942 to 1944 had serial numbers with a "V" prefix, and were known as the Smith & Wesson Victory Model. It is noteworthy that early Victory Models did not always have the V prefix. During World War II over 570,000 of these pistols were supplied to the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa under the Lend-Lease program, chambered in the British .38/200 caliber already in use in the Enfield No 2 Mk I Revolver and the Webley Mk IV Revolver. Most Victory Models sent to Britain were fitted with 4-inch or 5-inch barrels, although a few early versions had 6-inch barrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted October 21, 2018 Thanks for the help. The barrel is 4 7/8 inches. That would be considered 5 inch. I will get more pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 21, 2018 Share #7 Posted October 21, 2018 Thanks for the help. The barrel is 4 7/8 inches. That would be considered 5 inch. I will get more pics. Yep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted October 21, 2018 More Pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted October 21, 2018 ...more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted October 21, 2018 .....more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #11 Posted October 21, 2018 Just to add that the gun hasn't been cleaned yet. That's vintage dust and oxidation you are seeing. The barrel is clean.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ashooter Posted October 21, 2018 Share #12 Posted October 21, 2018 I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Keith Posted October 21, 2018 Share #13 Posted October 21, 2018 I believe the Broad Arrow markings D /I\ D are for Australia. Fix Bayonets is correct, this was a Lend Lease to Australia. Nice piece, I just got one nearly identical not long ago. The "FTR/M 54" marking means it was rebuilt and probably refinished in 1954 by the Australian arsenal. Lots of info on the web about them. BKW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted October 21, 2018 Thank you BrianKeith. How does all this affect/effect value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted October 21, 2018 Share #15 Posted October 21, 2018 Just to add that the gun hasn't been cleaned yet. That's vintage dust and oxidation you are seeing. The barrel is clean.. The pic in this post shows an import stamp...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted October 21, 2018 VEGA SAC CA. From what I've read this is for Vega in Sacramento, California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskman Posted October 21, 2018 Share #17 Posted October 21, 2018 G.H.D. Guy H. Drewry ....Army Inspector of Ordnance, 1942-45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin6 Posted October 21, 2018 Share #18 Posted October 21, 2018 Just to address the import stamp; it does tend devalue the firearm from one without the import stamp; how much is variable. The other stamps probably have no significant effect on value over other lend-lease models, and clearly establish its pedigree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommatt3 Posted October 22, 2018 Share #19 Posted October 22, 2018 That .38 S&W barrel may be a 1954 British replacement. U.S. issue 4" barrels were marked .38 S&W special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share #20 Posted October 22, 2018 tommatt3. I'm not sure what your point was. The Victory export all used the 4, 5 and scarcer 6 inch barrel during WWII in the British/Canadian/Australian/New Zealand/So.Africa military. They used the 38/200 cartridge. My barrel is marked .38 S&W CTG. The barrel should be original to the gun. If the barrel was a change, I would guess the serial number on the barrel would be different. This gun was refurbished in Australia in 1954 and most of the original pieces remain. Also, in order for my revolver to accommodate the .38 special, I believe the cylinder would have to be reworked or replaced. Currently, a .38 special round will not fit in my cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 22, 2018 Share #21 Posted October 22, 2018 That .38 S&W barrel may be a 1954 British replacement. U.S. issue 4" barrels were marked .38 S&W special. The revolver is US manufacture but not US issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted October 23, 2018 Share #22 Posted October 23, 2018 MDS308: You have a nice example of the .38 S&W/.38-200 Victory Model. As you have learned it is indeed a Lend Lease gun which ended up in Australia. The numbers on the crane and in the frame cutout are called "assemby numbers" and were used by the factory. They never match the serial number, so don't be concerned about that. They only need to match each other. Yes, your revolver has been refinished. They was done by the Australians during the FTR process. The process they used gives a distinctive charcoal coloration somewhat different from the factory original finish, but just as serviceable. As mentioned, Vega of Sacramento, CA was the importer. The 1968 Gun Control Act required that all eligible firearms imported into the USA be marked with the importer's name and location. (This was done to assist with tracing.) So, we know that your revolver returned to the USA sometime after the effective date of the GCA. It likely arrived in the late 1980s. That is when a company associated with Vega, Pacific International Merchandising Corp, also of Sacramento, began advertising these Aussie Victory Models for sale in the Shotgun News and other gun pubs. They were priced at $79.95. You can find a replacement lanyard ring on ebay or maybe Gunbroker. They usually go for about $25. Make sure to get one that is case colored as that was the original finish. If you are curious, send me a PM of the complete serial number. I will check the Victory Model Database and will be able to give you a very good estimate on when your revolver left the S&W factory, along with its initial destination. Alternatively, you can send off for a letter from the S&W Historical Foundation which will give you a precise shipment date. I hope that additional information is helpful to you. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share #23 Posted October 23, 2018 You can find a replacement lanyard ring on ebay or maybe Gunbroker. They usually go for about $25. Make sure to get one that is case colored as that was the original finish. Does this mean my lanyard ring is incorrect for this revolver? Thank you Mr. Flick for all your time, information and help. I can see why everyone in this forum speaks highly of you. PM on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 23, 2018 Share #24 Posted October 23, 2018 Lanyard ring looks correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Flick Posted October 23, 2018 Share #25 Posted October 23, 2018 Hello again, MDS308: Thanks for providing me with the complete serial number. That allows me to say that your revolver likely shipped from the S&W factory in the May-June, 1943 time frame, based on the Victory Model Database. As a Lend Lease gun, it was shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot in Springfield, Massachusetts. That was the destination for all S&W Lend Lease guns. After that, no one can say where it went although we know that it ended up in Australia. Sorry, I mixed you up with my comments on the lanyard ring. I was asked to look at another similar gun this week which had a missing ring and I must have been thinking about that one when I mentioned where you could find a replacement ring. Captain Obvious here missed the obvious on your revolver. Your lanyard ring is indeed the correct type, but it was refinished with the rest of the gun. There is no reason to change it now. You have a nice, historic WW2 revolver. Enjoy it. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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