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Increasing Number of U.S. Medal Groups Being Sold to Foreign Buyers ?


dpast32
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Good Morning Gents, I have a question for all of our U.S. medal collectors & researchers here on the USMF. I just can't help thinking about all the fine U.S. medals & groups being sold & shipped out of the CONUS lately. Am I alone in my dismay, or do others share my 'pain' at watching some really nice & historic U.S. groups heading overseas, perhaps to never return here to the U.S. ? Now, just to clarify things, I harbor no ill will towards foreign medal collectors, & in fact count many as friends. BUT, it still doesn't lessen the feelings I get when I see perhaps a 26th Yankee Division Heart or similar piece leaving our shores probably forever. Maybe I'm alone in my feelings on this issue, & absolutely DO NOT WISH to start anything with our fellow collector's overseas. ( I too have some foreign group s in my collection. ) I'm merely soliciting opinions & individual views regarding this issue amongst us here on the Forum. If this subject has been previously discussed here, I do apologize for this belated post. I did attempt a search, but didn't come across anything relevant. THANKS Guys,

 

Best, dpast32

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mhalstead1950

i understand where you're coming from. I've been looking for a WWII KIA Nebraska Purple heart and one of the last ones that sold was shipped half way across the world instead of coming home. However I will mention that I do realize the medal in in the hands of a caring collector, it's just disappointing to know that he could have finally come home.

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I am not personally concerned. The only exception was the loss of our Medals of Honor that were exported because of the silly Stolen Valor Act. Now THAT was an export of our heritage. But for the rest of the hobby, medals get traded and sold constantly to and from overseas. I personally have a nice British medal group collection including a DFC so I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. In all seriousness, as long as the medals are being cared for, it should not be a concern. There are enough medal groups to go around and if somebody has the dosh to spend on a group, well go for it. At some point, I am sure a lot of these medal groups will make the return trip.

 

-Ski

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I'm philosophical about it. Yes, I would prefer to see our military heritage remain in the US and I'm certain the citizens of other countries feel the same way about their artifacts. That said, the internet has made militaria a global market and I certainly don't hold a grudge against overseas collectors. In fact, I've sold many US artifacts overseas. I actually lived this dilemma in reverse during the mid 90s. In the early internet era, and before the creation of the Euro, Germans discovered that vast amounts of money could be made selling named medal and document groups to US collectors. The DM/Dollar exchange rate made this especially attractive. Several German dealers became millionaires as a result. At the time, although tempered somewhat WRT WWII artifacts for obvious reasons, Germans were also quietly concerned about the loss of their military heritage. This was especially so with groups related to the Knight's Cross. I sold a large portion of my collection to buy a number of these groups, which I still own and treasure. Many were sold by the original recipients and families via German brokers. I'm also certain that when I decide to move these groups along, they stand a better than average chance of winding up back in Germany. And so it goes!

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I'd have to say that my opinion is that a medal group is just as preserved in the US or another country as long as the person who gets it is interested. I find the US shorter on history-minded people than many other countries. Personally, I am always trying to collect WWII French and resistance things. While French stuff in France is more normal, I think people in other countries might be more interested in something that is sort of normal in your own country. So, one more GCM or PH here might be something out-of-this-world for someone where it is not as normal. :) Just my two cents. So, I guess my basic answer would be - no. Doesn't bother me at all when it is a serious person on the other side. :)

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Many of the collectors in Europe that I know cherish not just the medals and groups, but they really value what these brave men did for their families and countries. I know several of my Euro friends that have "adopted" American soldier graves to tend to and keep up, put flags out, etc. I am ok with them being the caretakers of the medal groups of these brave men.

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I haven't seen this to be the case, in my experience at least. I've sold two groups to a foreign buyer within the last few years and to be honest, he's invested more time and money into preserving and displaying the groups than most anyone I know here in the US. Otherwise, everything else I've sold has been to domestic buyers, both here on the USMF and on eBay.

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This turn of events is very similar to the 90s when Japanese collectors paid ridiculous prices for WWII leather flight jackets. It drove me out of the hobby.

What I began doing was to post images of captured Japanese material. Also, at the time, there was interest in returning things like flags and swords to

the families in Japan. When someone would contact me, I'd tell them the material was not for sale, but it could be traded for with US material. It worked

well on several occasions. I have enough jackets now, so I no longer do this. Just a thought......

 

Owen

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Many folks around the world still love the U.S. and what we stand for. Also look at all the other American made items such as cars and antiques that are leaving our country for places and rich collectors around the globe. Given a choice most Europeans want American Dollars or gold . Let's face it , they love a winner. Who Can blame anyone for that. Just my opinion-no hard feelings.

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No problem here. I have shipped items to Italy to a WW2 collector in Italy. He displays most his stuff in a local museum, and has personally recovered artifacts and remains of US serviceman on/ close to his property in Italy. He is grateful to America and has three of his " finds" ( remains) turned over to US officials that were able to positively Identify WW2 Italian campaign US MIA's. I might add, a lot of items are bought for display in EU museums, better to be put on public display than sit unseen, collecting dust in a private collection.

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THANK YOU Guys for all the thoughts & comments. As I noted in my initial post, I have no animosity towards overseas collectors, & I just feel sad to see items head so far away. But, as some here have said, many foreign collectors cherish their U.S. stuff more than some domestic collectors. So, I guess it all boils down to who has it, not where it's gone. in fact, some of my really nice groups are British & German !! Personally though, I can't help wishing things remained in the good old U.S.A.

 

Best, dpast32

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This was talked about in 2014 here... http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/199848-is-there-any-resentment/page-2?hl=%2Bforeign+%2Bfriends&do=findComment&comment=1565404

 

But it's good to get an update.

 

To echo some above sentiments, I know many foreign collectors who treat our stuff right, and I know many American collectors who butcher and hump groups and destroy history to turn a buck, good guys and scumbags everywhere. The only one that really kind of irks me is all the China-made USMC silver being bought up by China, as we will almost certainly never see that again.

 

In 2012 we asked foreign members why they collect US, maybe some new members will want to chime in. The topic is old and worthy of a bump. It is here... http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/156597-our-foreign-friends-who-collect-us/?hl=%2Bforeign+%2Bfriends

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All things change. Who remembers the A-2 flight jackets going to Japan?

 

As both a seller and collector (I sell and buy heavily to and from OCONUS and CONUS) and one who is often accused of breaking up lots, I opine that if your personal beliefs on seeing things stay in America are strong enough to get you upset, you simply need to step up and pay more than our foreign counterparts who now have equal access to the market (online auctions and shows). As the world market opens up (the world isn't quite so big anymore), technology and banging economies allow virtually anyone access and ability.

 

None of this stuff is truly "gone", again, technology, travel, and no borders has allowed a lot of stuff to come back and/or circulate. Collections are liquidated all the time. I think the more that people (any people) invest and collect, we are all better served to preserve heritage that otherwise gets thrown out.

 

A lot of the China Marine material I have sold is not being bought by Chinese. Buyers tend to be foreign (European) investors operating or living in China, at least in my experiences. They often us buying services to stay private and for shipping/customs concerns.

 

Mike

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