Is There a Site/Page Online On those American Tank Crews Sent To Egypt In The Summer of 1942?pt

[patches]

Was interested in reading and seeing more on this, so would anyone know of a site/page or perhaps an in depth topic in from the past here on USMF where it was talked about.

 

I don't feel like ordering Sahara off Amazon to find out more, only joking I just find this an interesting period, and don't know hardly anything on it, like how many tanks were sent, what became of these guys and their tanks, like did they just eventually get reassigned in theater to say the 1st or 2nd Armd Divs, or one of the Separate Tank Bns in 1943, like who was their overall C.O., were there support people too, not mechanics which there probably were, but other's like Signal Corps, Ordnance Corps Ammo people etc.

[copper252]

I had never heard about US tanks and crews being sent out that early, I guess I learn something new everyday.

 

-Seth

[patches]

I had never heard about US tanks and crews being sent out that early, I guess I learn something new everyday.

 

-Seth

Here's one of them

 

[BILL THE PATCH]

Don't forget this guy

[patches]

Clowning around aside, doesn't seem to be anything on them, just brief mentioning in a couple a books I have, and really nothing online.

[patches]

Found this photo in that 1966 Gene Gurney book The United States Army...A Pictorial History.

 

 

Caption says and I Quote. "A Tank is given a test on the sand dunes in Egypt by men of the Drivers' Section of a Repair Depot of the Middle East Training Center".

 

No date is given as we see, and the "Tank" is of course the M7 Self Propelled Artillery vehicle the Priest. Looks at any rate to be an accurate photo, cause the terrain looks like the Sahara, and the Priest has a Tan Desert paint job, paint seen of British tanks and other British AFVs and soft skin vehicles.

[patches]

Found this from the Center of Military History. Oddly we see the excap same photo of the Priest on the top of the page, but no real other talk on it or Lee Tanks.

 

Here is the operative paragraph, you'll see but only talk on Air Forces etc not U.S. Army ground missions in the rest of the page.

 

The JCS straddled the fence. Although Churchill was persuasive enough to inspire brief interest in a plan that would have sent Maj. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., and an American armored division to Egypt to bolster the British Eighth Army, the JCS limited American troop commitments in the theater to air units. Seeking compromise, Marshall proposed sending some of the Army's latest equipment to the British forces in Egypt: 300 M4 Sherman tanks, 100 self-propelled 105-mm. artillery pieces, and 150 men qualified to maintain and repair this equipment, which had only recently entered the American inventory. The President immediately approved the proposal, and the Prime Minister quickly accepted it. The British especially appreciated the Sherman models because their 75-mm. guns were mounted more effectively in turrets instead of in sponsors (protrusions mounted on the side of the hull). The Sherman gave the British a tank approximately equal to the German panzers facing the Eighth Army. Although the War Department immediately began to implement the agreement, the distances between the United States and Egypt and the acute shortage of Allied shipping meant that the tanks, artillery, and support troops would not actually arrive in Egypt until early September.

 

 

https://history.army.mil/brochures/egypt/egypt.htm

[patches]

Big breakthrough on this, working off a small article from a 1964 Army Reserve magazine I just got, it makes mention of one Henry Cabot Lodge Jr's retirement from Army Service, Lodge Jr was not only Ambassador to South Vietnam around this time, he was also a Major General in the Reserves, Lodge Jr sees service in WWII, finishes the war as a Lt Colonel and 6th Army Group Staff Officer, but before that, in 1942, he's in Egypt .

 

The operative section from his WIKI. Got some holes in it as you see, like the Tobruk statement, but it's the real first online found info on these U.S. Tankers were seen.

 

Lodge served with distinction during the war, rising to the rank of lieutenant colonel. During the war he saw two tours of duty. The first was in 1942 while he was also serving as a U.S. Senator. The second was in 1944–5 after he resigned from the Senate.

The first period was a continuation of Lodge's longtime service as an Army Reserve Officer. Lodge was a major in the 1st Armored Division. That tour ended in July 1942, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered congressmen serving in the military to resign one of the two positions, and Lodge, who chose to remain in the Senate, was ordered by Secretary of War Henry Stimson to return to Washington. During this brief service, he led a squadron of American tankers at Gazala; they were the first Americans to engage German troops on land in the war.[6]

After returning to Washington and winning re-election in November 1942, Lodge went to observe allied troops serving in Egypt and Libya, and in that position, he was on hand for the British retreat from Tobruk.

Lodge served the first year of his new Senate term but then resigned his Senate seat on February 3, 1944 in order to return to active duty, the first U.S. Senator to do so since the Civil War. He saw action in Italy and France.

In the fall of 1944, Lodge single-handedly captured a four-man German patrol.

At the end of the war, in 1945, he used his knowledge of the French language and culture, gained from attending school in Paris to aid Jacob L. Devers, the commander of the Sixth United States Army Group, to coordinate activities with the French First Army commander, Jean de Lattre de Tassigny, and then carry out surrender negotiations with German forces in western Austria.[citation needed]

Lodge was decorated with the French Legion of Honor and Croix de Guerre with palm.[11] His American decorations included the Legion of Merit and the Bronze Star Medal.

After the war, Lodge returned to Massachusetts and resumed his political career. He continued his status as an Army Reserve officer and rose to the rank of major general.

[patches]

Further redirects led me to this site, check out lead photo., U.S. Tankers wear Tin Hat and Garrison Caps with their Lee Tank. More GIs further down the page.

 

https://mikesresearch.com/2021/01/24/americans-at-gazala-libya-1942/

[patches]

And more here on this other forum, bummer you can't view posted images on this forum, I think you have to join this forum.

 

http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/american-army-personnel-attached-to-the-8th-army-in-the-western-desert-prior-to-operation-torch.88851/

[Powerhouse]

In 1942, Henry Cabot Lodge Jr was a member of the staff of the 2nd armored division.

https://benning7.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/ft-benning-after-pearl-harbor/

 

It is also possible that he commanded the group of instructors from the US 66th Armored Regiment.

The 2nd armored furnished a large contingent of men at the 1st armored division for compensate his firsts casualties in combat, He could be among them.

I will see if I can found something about that in my books.

[Powerhouse]

I did not find any mention of this either in the 66th Armored Regiment book "Iron Knights" (Gordon A. BAKER) or in "Roll Again 2nd armored" (Major PERKINGS).

I summarize what I found in Donald Houston's book "Hell on Wheels" (page 108):

While the division was maneuvering to test the new Shermans and M7 tanks, General Marshall considered sending the entire division to North Africa to assist the British, but the idea was abandoned in favor of sending all tanks and artillery of the division.

A maintenance and advisory group was dispatched with the vehicles, led by Major Henry Cabot Lodge Jr.

During the Battle of Libya, American soldiers maneuvered these tanks and destroyed 9 German tanks.

The second reason to send this group was tactical, to study combat in the desert.

[patches]

Found some photos, these taken in September 1942 in Egypt. Got the Yanks with the Grant rather then the Lee, So it seems the Lee wasn't used like in Sahara LOL, it was the Grant. Also see the one photo where the Jeep is painted Tan, though it could be British, a Lend Lease.

[patches]

Tankers and Air Corps guys pose in a group. also in September 1942, armed with Springfield 08s and Tommy Guns we see.

[iron bender]

Awesome pic! Looks like the 03's may be wearing the m1923 web slings.... and I like the guy dead center showing what he thinks about army life

[patches]

12 hours ago, iron bender said:

Awesome pic! Looks like the 03's may be wearing the m1923 web slings.... and I like the guy dead center showing what he thinks about army life

Yes 03s, my TYPO, 08. Hey though that guy is giving the V For Victory LOL.

[Linedoggie]

[Linedoggie]

[Linedoggie]

[patches]

This is seen in a Squadron/Signal Book I got, the 1995 M3 Lee/Grant In Action.

So it seems they were at Tobruk, the June 1942 episode, I thought then it was the November 1941 episode.

 

The Operative Section. It says and I quote

 

Throughout the remainder of the battle for Gazala, the Grants proved a serious threat to German armor and anti-tank guns with its 75mm and 37mm guns and heavy armor, but poor British tactics and generalship eventually forced the British to retreat in disarray in what had been referred to as the "Gazala Romp" with tremendous losses of both men and equipment.  It was also during this battle that U.S. tankers received their baptism of fire, although under British control in British M3 Grants. Three crews under Major Henry Cabot Lodge had been sent to the mid-East for training and to acquire combat experience. Stationed near Tobruk, they took part in mid-June while serving with te 4th Armored Brigade. After taking part in the fighting around Knightsbridge 'Box" and Acroma, they part in the retreat from Egypt, where they were shipped home to train U.S. crews. During the fighting, they clamed credit for destroying nine German tanks, the first for U.S. crews against German forces

[Tolzer]

In the summer of 1942, the Allied forces were in a dire situation in North Africa. The German and Italian forces, led by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, had pushed the British back to the Egyptian border. The British were in danger of losing the entire Middle East. In an effort to turn the tide of the war, the United States sent a large contingent of troops to Egypt. The first American tank crews arrived in July 1942. They were part of the 1st Armored Division, which was commanded by Major General George S. Patton.

The American tanks were a major boost to the British forces. They were better equipped and better trained than the British tanks. The Americans also had more tanks than the British. The American tanks played a key role in the Allied victory at the Battle of El Alamein in October 1942. This victory turned the tide of the war in North Africa and led to the eventual defeat of the Axis forces in the region. The American tank crews who served in Egypt in the summer of 1942 played a vital role in the Allied victory. They helped to turn the tide of the war and to liberate the Middle East from Axis control.

 

Here are some additional details about the American tank crews who served in Egypt in the summer of 1942:

 

The crews were drawn from all over the United States.

They were typically young men in their early twenties.

They had received extensive training in the United States before being sent to Egypt.

They were well-equipped with tanks, guns, and ammunition.

They were led by experienced officers, such as Patton.

They fought bravely and effectively in the Battle of El Alamein.

They helped to turn the tide of the war in North Africa and to liberate the Middle East from Axis control.

 

The American tank crews who served in Egypt in the summer of 1942 were heroes. They fought bravely and effectively, and they helped to turn the tide of the war in North Africa. Their actions helped to liberate the Middle East from Axis control and to pave the way for the Allied victory in World War II.