GWS Posted December 4, 2008 Share #1 Posted December 4, 2008 Seen a lot of pre-WW1 first aid packets and pouches on ebay lately and was wondering if anyone had done any research on the 1904 dressing packet. My efforts online haven't proven too successful, so I figured this would be the best place to find out. I've never seen a packet with an early date on it, yet I have a 1904 RIA marked pouch in my collection. Certainly the dressing packet was made first and the pouch designed to fit it, but there seems to be no information out there on the real early made packets. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattOravik Posted December 5, 2008 Share #2 Posted December 5, 2008 Let me say I don't know much about the real early first aid packets. But a while back there was a very early first aid packet for sale on RSD militaria. It had no need for a pouch because the metal packet was made with a rim around it much like the WWII packets and the metal belt hook was actually attached to this rim. The hooks were different looking than the ones found on the M1907 style pouches. I have no idea what model first aid packet that was but it was described as very early and rare. I wish I saved the pics of it. -Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted December 5, 2008 Share #3 Posted December 5, 2008 Carter Rila (webcat) co-authored an article in the Company of Military Historians magazine about the first aid packets and pouches from the era. I’ll try to condense the information here. The original first aid packet was issued just after the Spanish American War. It was originally to be carried in the pocket or the haversack. It was quickly realized that the packets were wearing out prematurely. The last pattern cartridge belts for the Krag rifle actually had two eyelets to tie the packet to the back of the belt. With the adoption of the M1903 rifle and pocketed cartridge belt the Ordnance department decided to issue a pouch for the purpose of carrying the packet. The packet pictured is undated but identical to one I saw on ebay a while back with a contract date of 1905. The pouch is dated 1904 and was made at Rock Island arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted December 5, 2008 Share #4 Posted December 5, 2008 It is at this point that the story gets interesting. The Ordnance department decided to ask the Medical department to redesign the packet to fit in one of the pockets of the cartridge belt. The medical department compressed the packet to fit and the issue seemed to be settled as to where to carry the packet. After field trials it was noticed that the compressed packets were wearing out. All the interested parties went back to the drawing board and came up with the M1906 packet. This was a self contained metal packet with belt hooks attached to the packet by a metal ring. I’ve been lucky enough to find one of the packets but mine is missing the belt hooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted December 5, 2008 Share #5 Posted December 5, 2008 packet opened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted December 5, 2008 Share #6 Posted December 5, 2008 It was soon realized that the M1906 packet was quickly worn to the point of being unusable. Again back to the drawing board. The Ordnance and Medical departments finally came up with the M1907 packet and pouch combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone Posted December 5, 2008 Share #7 Posted December 5, 2008 Some of the remaining M1904 pouches were rebuilt with the male part of the snap moved about a half inch up the face of the pouch and the holes sealed with eyelets to fit the new packet. Amazingly, the pouch would be redesigned several more times before the First World War. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinb Posted December 5, 2008 Share #8 Posted December 5, 2008 I have one of the M1906 packet that still has one of its belt hooks. It's dated 1907 and US Navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 5, 2008 Share #9 Posted December 5, 2008 This is the article mentioned above from the Company of Military Historians. Carter gave me permission several years ago to reprint it anywhere there was an interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 5, 2008 Share #10 Posted December 5, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 5, 2008 Share #11 Posted December 5, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 5, 2008 Share #12 Posted December 5, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 5, 2008 Share #13 Posted December 5, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks for all the info guys, this really helps with what is apparently a somewhat confusing issue. I had no idea that a first aid packet was made with attachment hooks on it. I was correct in assuming the packets were developed around the Span-Am War period, but I wasn't able to find any info after many hours of google searches. The article in the Military Collector and Historian is a real wealth of knowlege and must be considered a definitive work on the subject, at least for me it is. Thanks so much again for your efforts on this, it was way more than I had hoped for. GWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Romantic Posted December 11, 2008 Share #15 Posted December 11, 2008 Excellent discussion guys, and great examples of the early first aid dressings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted December 13, 2008 NR---Thanks for sharing your website---signed your guestbook & left you a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo Posted December 15, 2008 Share #17 Posted December 15, 2008 Excellent information guys!!! It just adds more stuff to the list of things to find and get for the collection. The bank account is screaming in agony at the thought. Gee...thanks guys...I think. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattOravik Posted December 16, 2008 Share #18 Posted December 16, 2008 I'm sure some of you saw the beautiful, unopened mint M1906 first aid packet/M1904 modified pouch that just sold on ebay. From the millionaire's collection. Wow was it in nice shape and wow did it go for a big price! -Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share #19 Posted December 17, 2008 MattOravik---Yes, I did notice that!!!$$$$$$$ I do have the unmodified 1904 RIA pouch, just need one of the early "cardboard" packets to complete it. Shouldn't be hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpsshooter Posted December 21, 2008 Share #20 Posted December 21, 2008 Hi, last year I came across a MILLS WW1 9 pocket ammo belt, date unreadable with a double 45 magazine pouch dated APR 1918, a first aid pouch with JPS 1917 stamped inside flap. Each pocket is filled with a clip with 5 WRA 67 308 cases. Two months ago I found a sealed BAUER & BLACK CHICAGO USA US ARMY first aid packet with a contract date of NOV 2-1916, it is a brass case covered with about 95% brown paint with a pull ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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