327th Glider Infantry Oval and wing

[mtnman]

I wanted to share a picture of a 327th glider infantry Regiment oval with wing. My purpose is to ascertain whether this is world war 2 issue oval or more likely Korea or thereafter.... I am making my first forays into parachute/glider infantry regiment collecting and I want to make sure that I do it right and that goal is advanced with the vast experience of our airborne collectors which this most excellent forum gives us access to. So, if any of you airborne aficionados would be so indulging as to contribute to the extirpation of my ignorance, I would be most grateful!

[Tonomachi]

I picked up a similar glidertrooper wing a little over a year ago with the same slightly dished out hollowing of the back of glider. Mine is marked AMICO but it does not match the original AMICO hallmarked glidertrooper wing that another member posted (see link below):

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/293745-amico-marked-glider-trooper-wing/?hl=amico

 

As the two AMICO hallmarked glidertrooper wings do not match I am suspicious of the one I have and now suspicious of your piece as they appear to have come from the same die. I have come across one other recently hallmarked STERLING that has a single bronze star added and the same dished out area and pin back assembly. I never saw these when I started collecting variations of glidertrooper wings some 40 years ago. In addition there is a more current glidertrooper wing that is clutch back with the later period 22 inside of a shield NS Meyer hallmarked piece with this same dished out area. I can't say for sure that these are fake pieces but am suspicious that they may be.

[Allan H.]

My first concern with the image that you posted was that I didn't think the wing was an original. Then I read Tonomachi's same observation, so I guess that means that there are two of us that don't like the wing. Now we can move on to the oval. I don't like the oval one bit. I've seen a bunch of ovals and have never encountered a 327th oval made like this. The style of the oval is similar to the oval worn by the 551st PIB, but they only used a staple to secure the two pieces of felt together. A year or two ago, I recall seeing this type of manufacture for three or four different units. My assumption at the time was that someone had access to a bunch of felt and too much time on their hands.

 

Allan

[MAW]

I'm not a "wing" guy by any means....but my first impression was I liked the wing but not the oval.

 

What are the concerns with the wing?

[mtnman]

Thank you very much Allen and T, for taking the time to clarify things. This wing and oval are on eBay and I had never seen an oval of World War II vintage 327th glider infantry Regiment of this design. The wings were not an issue because I to stick with the standard designs and maker names, being a neophyte to airborne collecting. I am glad that this wing issue has been brought to light for the benefit of the wing collecting community. Thanks for your top-notch assessment gentlemen and as always blessings in your collecting...Mel

[pfrost]

I have to agree with MAW, what is the issue with the wing? Hallmarks can be added to extant vintage wings, which is somthing that I have seen more than a few times. The same goes for the addition of stars or other post-hoc compliments being put on a vintage wing to increase its potential value. But none of that is evident on this wing. Perhaps the addition of the STERLING mark could have been added to the wing, but that seems hardly necessary to sell this item.

 

Specifically for this wing, I don't really see anything that would make me think it isn't a vintage die struck insignia (with all the caveats that I am just looking at some pictures). It isn't a casting (from what I can see) nor does the hardware look out of place. It isn't a NS Meyer restrike. The wing itself isn't that rare or valuable as to warrant a great deal of skullduggery by our little pin-headed faking bretheren. The patina and wear seem reasonable (although an argument could be made that the patina has that "brownish cast" that looks like it came from a "patina-in -a-can" rather than the normal silver oxidization you would see for a WWII vintage wing (or even as late as around the KW). But that could also just be the lighting.

 

just some thoughts.

[Allan H.]

Patrick,

I appreciate your input as your opinion carries a great deal of weight with me. I guess I should go into some detail on the wing. I'm going to start by saying that it is always more difficult to evaluate a piece via photo rather than by holding it in your hand, so different people see different things. My first glimpse at the catch made me think that it looked like a good wing, but the way the wing looks dished on the back side of the glider and on the wings themselves gave me pause. As Tonomachi stated in his post, I've seen these attributes on post-war clutch backed wings.

 

Additionally, he says " In addition there is a more current glidertrooper wing that is clutch back with the later period 22 inside of a shield NS Meyer hallmarked piece with this same dished out area. I can't say for sure that these are fake pieces but am suspicious that they may be."

 

I have taken the liberty of enlarging the photo posted and you can see in the circle that I added that the Meyer logo was there. You can still read "Meyer Inc" but the shield is missing. It looks like it was buffed to me. Why do you suppose that was done? Anytime I see the back side of a wing with evidence of buffing. I move along.

 

Allan

[pfrost]

Ah, I see now. Yes, I would agree that if the wings have been buffed, then that makes sense.

 

a comparison that I think really makes Alan and Tonomachi's point.

 

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Vietnam-United-States-Airborne-Glider-Assault-Wings-Badge-By-N-S-Meyer-1124-/232911059430?hash=item363a94b9e6

 

I have noted that one of the tricks for airborne wings is to cut off the clutch backs and then "add" a pin back hinge and catch system to try to fool people into thinkging that the wings are older than they really are. I've seen similar tricks done with some of the USAAF NS Meyer restrikes.

 

Ok, so you guys seem to be spot on about these wings.

P

[pfrost]

I think you can see that the auction has a BIN for 18$. A few minutes on a buffing wheel, about a buck or two worth of new findings (maybe taken off a cheap WWII vintage shooting or qualification badge), a few more minutes with a soldering iron, a quick dip in some chemicals to give it a patina, and <1$ worth of felt...

 

Original -- 20$ (at most) worth of parts

New and improved $80-100 327th glider airborne insignia.

 

Is it safe to say that the 327th is a rare group to find?

 

So maybe the pinheads can make some money...LOL

[mtnman]

Very insightful assessment of the visual aspects extant in both wings, seeing past the effort to obfuscate the modifications made to infer a vintage dating. Outstanding work Patrick!

[pfrost]

You should thank Alan and Tonomachi's insight. They caught it, not me. Its one of those things were you have to have it in hand, I guess. At first blush, I didn't see the alterations.