M37 SSI Questions

[NamHelmet]

Hello All,

 

I am looking for North African/Italian campaign combat uniforms. Looking at photos, it looks like the U.S. predominantly wore M37 combat shirts and M1941 field jackets.

 

While referencing period photos, I notice some soldiers have SSI, and some do not. Is there a reason for this inconsistency?

 

I also noticed too while looking at some M37s for sale that rank patches and ruptured duck patches will be present without SSI. Is there a reason for this?

 

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[NamHelmet]

 

Soldier with no SSI

 

Two soldiers from the 88th, one with SSI ans one without

 

Infantry with no SSI

 

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[NamHelmet]

Lastly, why do I sometimes see 2 different division SSI's on the same uniform, one SSI on the left and one on the right sleeve?

 

Same uniform:

 

 

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[268th C.A.]

the division on the left sleeve is the one their curently assigned too. re-asigned too or shipping home with. The right side is the division they usually shipped out with.

[copper252]

I think the reason for ruptured ducks, ranks and no patches is that the soldiers only put the patch on their ike. They may of only had one patch, or they just didn't think it was necessary to put it on the wool shirt.

 

-Seth

[Allan H.]

OK, we have lots of questions to answer here, so bear with me. Let's start with the SSI questions. Typically, SSIs were worn with uniforms in garrison and would be required to be worn on the outer garment. So, a soldier could wear a shirt without an SSI under his blouse (jacket) and be ok, but if shirtsleeve order was prescribed, the expectation was that a shoulder patch be worn. When you are looking at a shirt with patches, the patch on the wearer's left shoulder is his current unit of assignment. The patch on his right shoulder would be his "Former Wartime Unit" SSI, aka his "combat" patch. In WWII, there was no requirement that the soldier had to have served in a combat zone to qualify for the combat patch. I should note real quickly that there were times when patches were required on both shoulders prior to the "Former Wartime Service" patch was prescribed. Soldiers serving in the CBI theater were ordered to wear the CBI patch as dictated by the theater commander. Airmen in the AAF often times wore patches on both shoulders well before 1945 also. Finally, soldiers assigned to the 1st Allied Airborne Army were supposed to wear the 1st AA/BA SSI on their right shoulder to shown assignment while wearing their current unit patch on their left sleeve.

 

Moving on to combat..... Collectors don't always consider the fact that in combat, soldiers don't normally do their own laundry. After a period of combat, soldiers would be taken to a Bath Site where they would have shower tents set up and the soldiers would shower. They would take off their dirty, combat-worn clothes and drop them off prior to entering the shower. They would then get a clean set of clothes after coming out of the shower. The uniforms were handed out by size. Typically, they would not have any shoulder patches or rank insignia applied. You needed a 15 x 32 shirt and a 32x30 pair of trousers, you got something that would fit. The shirt might be a 15 1/2 x 33 and the pants might be a 32x28, but they would be good enough for getting the soldier back into the fight. Finding a uniform that was truly combat worn is a rarity.

 

Allan

[Old Marine]

Some times in combat unit insignia and rank chevrons were not worn. The rank was not worn because the enemy would intentionally target leaders to disrupt the leadership, so a lot of NCOs would remove their chevrons and officer's would cover up their insignia. Unit insignia, division patches were sometimes not worn in an attempt to conceal the identity of the unit and their movements from the enemy.

 

There were also supply problems that resulted in shortages of shoulder sleeve insignia.

[Old Marine]

This photo was taken at one of the bath points that Allan was talking about. These uniforms were taken from other soldiers, laundered, and repaired by the QM and then reissued to a new group of soldiers.

 

 

 

[huntssurplus]

This is an interesting topic for sure, another point to add is that colorful unit patches could stand out, allowing the enemy to more easily spot the wearer. I think the only time that most of the unit wore SSI would be the 101st and 82nd Airborne Division during the invasion of Normandy.

 

 

I think patches on combat uniforms were always more of a post-Korean war kind of thing when the subdued version came out.

 

Hunt

[NamHelmet]

the division on the left sleeve is the one their curently assigned too. re-asigned too or shipping home with. The right side is the division they usually shipped out with. 

Ah! Interesting, thank you. Was practice done at the end of service, or was this done during active duty?

 

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[NamHelmet]

OK, we have lots of questions to answer here, so bear with me.  Let's start with the SSI questions. Typically, SSIs were worn with uniforms in garrison and would be required to be worn on the outer garment. So, a soldier could wear a shirt without an SSI under his blouse (jacket) and be ok, but if shirtsleeve order was prescribed, the expectation was that a shoulder patch be worn.  When you are looking at a shirt with patches, the patch on the wearer's left shoulder is his current unit of assignment. The patch on his right shoulder would be his "Former Wartime Unit" SSI, aka his "combat" patch. In WWII, there was no requirement that the soldier had to have served in a combat zone to qualify for the combat patch. I should note real quickly that there were times when patches were required on both shoulders prior to the "Former Wartime Service" patch was prescribed.  Soldiers serving in the CBI theater were ordered to wear the CBI patch as dictated by the theater commander. Airmen in the AAF often times wore patches on both shoulders well before 1945 also. Finally, soldiers assigned to the 1st Allied Airborne Army were supposed to wear the 1st AA/BA SSI on their right shoulder to shown assignment while wearing their current unit patch on their left sleeve.

 

Moving on to combat..... Collectors don't always consider the fact that in combat, soldiers don't normally do their own laundry. After a period of combat, soldiers would be taken to a Bath Site where they would have shower tents set up and the soldiers would shower. They would take off their dirty, combat-worn clothes and drop them off prior to entering the shower. They would then get a clean set of clothes after coming out of the shower. The uniforms were handed out by size. Typically, they would not have any shoulder patches or rank insignia applied. You needed a 15 x 32 shirt and a 32x30 pair of trousers, you got something that would fit. The shirt might be a 15 1/2 x 33 and the pants might be a 32x28, but they would be good enough for getting the soldier back into the fight. Finding a uniform that was truly combat worn is a rarity.

 

Allan

Wow, thank you for tackling all of it Allan! Bath sites are a revelation, for it answers another question of how uniforms were maintained.

 

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[NamHelmet]

This photo was taken at one of the bath points that Allan was talking about.  These uniforms were taken from other soldiers, laundered, and repaired by the QM and then reissued to a new group of soldiers.  

 

 

 

Is there a reason why soldiers put their serial numbers and names on the inside of their shirts and jackets? Did they hope they would get their particular uniforms back after they were laundered?

 

Considering the QM repaired uniforms and issued them back out, did they remove the SSI and rank?

 

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[Allan H.]

Wartime and peacetime are two totally different animals when it comes to the military. Most of the uniforms that we as collectors encounter are dress uniforms rather than combat uniforms. In combat, clothing was seen as a consumable item just like bullets, bandages and rations. It was issued and used until it no longer suited its original purpose.

 

When the army goes back to a peacetime setting, the rules change and soldiers have to keep track of everything they are issued.

 

Allan