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Ref Thread: WWI Occupation Medal


Marksman
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Sure looks nice to see both Occupation medals together---

Remember that the WWI occupation medal (designed to honor service 1918-1923) wasn't actually awarded until late 1941 so its not surprising to find them in very good shape...

 

and the best part is the irony;

1. the castle that the American Eagle is perched on on the back of the WWI medal is Ehrenbreitstein---it's located just few miles south of the Remagen bridge shown on the WW2 medal---

 

2. the American Lieutenant that led the capture of the Bridge was born in Germany because his father had served in the Occupation force after WWI

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  • 1 year later...

I have been spending some time recently going through some of the boxes of stuff that I have acquired over the last 40 years of collecting. I was taken aback by this one as it differs from the other examples of this medal that I have in my collection. First of all, the ribbon is the one described as "first pattern" by collectors. Second, it sports a wrap brooch rather than the slot brooch normally encountered. Lastly, this is the heaviest pendant that I have ever encountered on a WWI Occupation medal. I don't have access to a scale, so my observation is subjective, but the medal feels heavier to me.

 

I'm receptive to any comments that this medal might receive.

 

Thanks for looking.

Allan

 

Edit- for some reason, the top of the drape has a decided curved look to it in the photo. I'm not sure how that has happened as when I look at it laying flat, it is straight as can be.

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Wow! That is the first time I have seen the first pattern ribbon actually applied to the medal rather than solely the ribbon bar. It does seem appropriate that it would have the wrap...perhaps due to it being navy-issued?

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As far as I know, these were only issued to the army, and they weren't issued until well after the war. I know that the medal was shown in the National Geographic with the wavy ribbon, but this is the only one I've ever encountered that had the wavy ribbon or the wrap brooch. Maybe Rocco, Adam, Tom, or one of the others might provide some insight?

 

Allan

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From the sloppy way the ribbon and brooch are attached I conjecture that it has been reribboned with first style ribbon on a wrap brooch. All I have ever encountered, on the loose or boxed, have had the straight ribbon and slotted (is that the right term?) brooch. I have only seen ribbon bars (the availability of which predated the medals themselves, 1941 vs. 1945-46) with the wavy-edged ribbon design.

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Here's my take

Although it is unlikely the medal was awarded with the first style ribbon (wavy), I submit it may be an early "prototype" (for lack of a better term) with first pattern ribbon. I also would submit it is possible it was re-ribboned by a Naval or USMC person on a wrap brooch. Navy and USMC personnel assigned to shore duty during the eligibility period (which ended in 1923) were eligible for the medal. I could envision one of the latter wanting a proper looking "naval" version and put it on an early drape with a wrap brooch, maybe to match the other service medals or his victory medal......my $.02

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Allan,

 

Here's one I picked up a year or two ago. Mine compares pretty favorably with another one that came in the Whitehead & Hoag box, except the wavy edge style ribbon and the style of slot brooch is slightly different.

 

If memory serves correctly, the original ribbon design was planned for this wavy edge but in the end the idea was scrapped and the standard style ribbon striping was used. I tend to think that it might have been a case of ribbon material being manufactured in the wavy pattern and made available for ribbons prior to the design changing away from the wavy pattern. George Studley might have made these medals up using the earlier ribbon pattern or possibly for veterans that wanted one prior to the official issues being made available. Only speculating on my part.

 

Tim

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My .02 is that the medals was re-ribboned with some of the first style ribbon material and mounted on a WWI Victory Medal wrap brooch. I do not believe that these medals were issued until 1941-42 time frame.

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Rocco,

 

Quite possible and my first thoughts when I saw that brooch was the same as yours. It is normally seen with the sewn slot brooch. Unofficial nevertheless with that wavy ribbon.

 

Tim

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My .02 is that the medals was re-ribboned with some of the first style ribbon material and mounted on a WWI Victory Medal wrap brooch. I do not believe that these medals were issued until 1941-42 time frame.

The ribbon bars were issued in 1941-42. The medals were not made or issued until 1945-46 or maybe a bit later.

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The ribbon bars were issued in 1941-42. The medals were not made or issued until 1945-46 or maybe a bit later.

That makes sense. The date on the Whitehead & Hoag box for the medal shows September 6th, 1945

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  • 5 months later...
  • 3 months later...

Yes, it was awarded to Marines. The Marine Brigade (2nd Infantry Division) served in the Army of Occupation. My grandfather (1/5 Marines) earned one and it is documented in his records.

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  • 3 years later...

Hello All,

 

My understanding is that this medal was/is available to qualified WWI vets (post Nov 1941 when the medal was established) via an application or request process to the "War Department."

 

Are any forum members aware of "issue records" for these medals? Or is there an alternative method of confirming that a veteran actually applied and received the medal through military/govt channels?

 

I have seen several WWI groups in which the vet was in a unit/organization that qualified for this medal, and the Occupation medal is present in the group. But I always wonder if such groups have had the medal "added" (by a prior collector who owned the group).

 

Hence the question, do issue or medal request records exist to confirm that the vet actually secured the medal him/herself?

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

 

JimB

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I definitely don't have the final answer, and I'm now curious as well. From all of my digging around, I've never seen those application files. Just thinking out loud here, but could those requests, once processed, ended up in the vet's service records? Most would have been destroyed in the 1973 fire, so the chance of finding one would be pretty much a needle in a haystack...save for the records that were untouched.

 

Just a few thoughts...I'm interested in what comes up!

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I definitely don't have the final answer, and I'm now curious as well. From all of my digging around, I've never seen those application files. Just thinking out loud here, but could those requests, once processed, ended up in the vet's service records? Most would have been destroyed in the 1973 fire, so the chance of finding one would be pretty much a needle in a haystack...save for the records that were untouched.

 

Just a few thoughts...I'm interested in what comes up!

 

Thanks for the input Dave. Good to hear that I am not the only who gets curious about such things.

 

RE: "ended up in the vet's service records" - Could be. But I'm thinking if the vet was discharged in say 1919 (out of service at that point), and the vet then applied for the medal in late 40's or 1950's, how would the Army link that medal issue to the circa 1919 service record of the vet? Or, would the Army even try to do it at that point in time?

 

Hmmmm.

 

Regards, Jim

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Would Marines assigned to the 2nd Division have been eligible? Since their personnel records survived, maybe the request could be found in one of them?

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This is an Army/Navy group in my collection. Fortunately the recipient's Army file survived the St. Louis fire and contains some documentation on the Army of Occupation Medal.

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Good question, Custer. Great documentation, Adam. Don't know why but I have always been under the impression that the medal was available upon application. Without researching, wasn't the ribbon available around 1942 with announcement of the medal's availability after end of WWII. Did the Army keep a record of those issued? Who knows? Maybe it will surface in the future. LOL.......Bob

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