Ref Thread: Navy Cross

[Kadet]

Andy

 

I don't feel Black Widow, the planchet doesn't look like the typical BW black oxidation you normally see, I detect what i perceive as the base metal color on the high points of the obverse and reverse. I suspect WW II at least and likely earlier based on the photos and not having it in hand.

T

 

Thanks, yes that is the base metal peeking thru in the worn areas. The ribbon is definitely WWII or earlier IMO...Also, if it is a clue...you can see the original sewing from the pin attachment still present on the ribbon, although the pin is long gone. I think the stitching was cut on one side, and pin assembly was slid out, perhaps to mount this on a medal bar.

[Kadet]

Thanks, yes that is the base metal peeking thru in the worn areas. The ribbon is definitely WWII or earlier IMO...Also, if it is a clue...you can see the original sewing from the pin attachment still present on the ribbon, although the pin is long gone. I think the stitching was cut on one side, and pin assembly was slid out, perhaps to mount this on a medal bar.

 

 

The presence of the original stitching may indicate that the medal had a split-brooch pin

[Adam R]

Great photos, Tom! They really show the important details. I've got a NC that was awarded for the 2nd Nicaraguan Campaign, with the parkerized finish. I'll try to get some pics of it and post them here for additional reference.

[tom2001]

Great photos, Tom! They really show the important details. I've got a NC that was awarded for the 2nd Nicaraguan Campaign, with the parkerized finish. I'll try to get some pics of it and post them here for additional reference.

 

Hi Adam,

 

Yea, would definitely be interested in seeing close-ups of your 2nd Nic NC. I'm still a little confused on the difference between the Fischer Type II (1928 medals made for issue to 2nd Nic recipients) and Fischer Type III's (1930's manufactured medals).

 

Tom

[tom2001]

That question has always perplexed me as well......OK I have no idea of you're talking about.

 

He he.....

 

Ok, Ron Fischer wrote an excellent article in the May 1994 issue of JOMSA. In it, he identified 6 types of Navy Crosses:

 

Type I: WWI issue NC's made by BB&B.

 

Type II: NC's struck by the US Mint in 1928 for 2nd Nic awards

 

Type III: US Mint struck medals made in the 1930's, and issued through the beginning of WWII

 

Type IV: The "Black Widow" Navy Cross (US Mint made)

 

Type V: The light bronze late war manufactured NC (US Mint made)

 

Type VI: Light bronze made by private contractors on crimp brooch ("modern" issue Lordship and Graco medals)

[bobgee]

Tom - Great pics! Here's a couple of shots 0f my 2nd Nic NC as awarded to Col. Archer for service in Nicaragua from 1929 to June 1930. I must assume the presentation was soom after the award was promulgated therefore would be one of Fischer's Type II awards. Will be interested to see how it compares with Adams. Bob

 

[Kadet]

Tom - Great pics! Here's a couple of shots 0f my 2nd Nic NC as awarded to Col. Archer for service in Nicaragua from 1929 to June 1930. I must assume the presentation was soom after the award was promulgated therefore would be one of Fischer's Type II awards. Will be interested to see how it compares with Adams. Bob

 

 

Bob, are the type IIs and IIIs one piece or three piece construction?

[bobgee]

Bob, are the type IIs and IIIs one piece or three piece construction?

 

Col. Archer's Cross has a U.S. Mint split brooch with ball-type lock and is of three-piece construction, i.e. both disks are manufactured separately and braised to the obverse & reverse of the cross, just like it's WWI original counterpart, but it is finished in a medium dark bronze finish on all metal parts. Don't know about the type III.

 

Bob

[JR KENMARK]

Does anyone have a Navy Cross (BW) in the early style coffin case? This is the dark case like the early Purple ones for PH's and red ones Silver Stars came in. Are all Black Widow types the full wrapped brooch or are they spli brooch type also?

[usaf70]

What makes the DSC a "Black Widow" type? Is it struck differently or have a different color to the medal?

 

Tom

[tom2001]

What makes the DSC a "Black Widow" type? Is it struck differently or have a different color to the medal?

 

Tom

 

Here are pics of one in my collection (BTW, I assume you mean NC and not DSC in your question).

 

They are made the same as the later war NCs as shown in this thread. The only difference is that the planchet and brooch were anodized black. Based on known attributed examples, it seems like a lot of them made their way to the Washington Navy Yard, where they were sent out as posthumous awards. Another batch made their way to Hawaii, and were awarded to submarine commanders for successful war patrols.

[Adam R]

Great photos, Tom! They really show the important details. I've got a NC that was awarded for the 2nd Nicaraguan Campaign, with the parkerized finish. I'll try to get some pics of it and post them here for additional reference.

 

Better late than never... This is the group that I referenced above. (I reribboned it, as the original ribbons were completely shot.) I haven't yet identified the original owner but I was able to come up with a short list of only about a half dozen candidates.

[Adam R]

Reverse of group. (The long pin / mounting bar is original to the group.)

[Adam R]

Obverse close up.

[Adam R]

Reverse close up.

[Adam R]

Side view.

[Adam R]

Bottom edge. I don't know the reason for the two small holes.

[wolfman]

I wonder if thoose holes where made by someone testing for silver?

[tarbridge]

Here is a legit Black Widow Navy Cross:

 

 

 

 

The Mailman just dropped this off. I used my phone for pictures and I hope they came out.

[Kropotkin]

Hello,

 

I've had this Navy Cross for a little while, which came from the estate of Evans Kerrigan via Spinks, New York, and am looking for some information on it. Supposedly it was awarded to a Marine for acts of bravery at Guadalcanal, but as I don't know much about US decorations I am looking for some expert appraisals on it. I suspect the clasp isn't original but that doesn't bother me much if the medal is pukka.

 

 

[dhcoleterracina]

A NC ribbon of WW2 era should be one and one half inches across. That is just slightly larger than all other US ribbon drapes. At least I can't think of another.

[KASTAUFFER]

I can tell you the brooch has been replaced . It looks like a wwi victory medal brooch.

 

I suspect the medal was bar mounted at one time and removed.

 

It does look like a correct black widow to me. During WWII, US Navy decorations were all made by the US Mint, and all had a variation of the USN brooch . The only exceptions are TYPE 1 Purple Hearts (Split Brooch), and post war contracts with slot brooches. The finishes on the brooches can be different ( gold wash, bronze ETC ) , but the basic design of the brooch is the same .

 

Kurt

[kanemono]

Here is an unusual Navy Cross awarded to Robert Gordon Owens Jr. As you can see the group to Owens consists of a sterling silver cigarette box given to he and his wife by the Officers of Torpedo Squadron Four in 1942. I bought the box with the the Navy Cross, Silver ID bracelet and EHA sweetheart pin thrown in. I was told the Navy Cross was cut from a bar of medals on a Vietnam period uniform. What I find unusual is the color of the Navy Cross which is very dark not the bronze color it should be. The ribbon does not floress under a black light. I know this is not a "black widow" Navy Cross. Any ideas on the color?

Robert Gordon Owens Jr. was born in Greenville, South Carolina, on February 13, 1917. He was a 1938 graduate of Furman University, South Carolina. Owens enlisted in the Marine Corps Reserve in August of 1939. He was assigned to the Aviation Cadet program in Pensacola, Florida. Upon graduation, he was designated a Naval Aviator and commissioned a Marine Reserve Second Lieutenant on June 7, 1940. Owens married Marjorie Frances (Fran) Hart in Hawaii on October 30, 1941. Owens was attached to a Marine bomber squadron stationed at Pearl Harbor, and took part in the island's defense after the Japanese attack on December 7, 1941. He led aerial combat in the Solomon Islands, New Georgia, and Bismarck Archipelago areas, earning the Navy Cross. He was awarded the Purple Heart for wounds received in action over Rabaul in the South Pacific. Owens was designated a Marine Corps Ace after shooting down seven Japanese aircraft.
Navy Cross Citation:
The President of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the Navy Cross to Robert G. Owens, Jr. (0-6308), Major, U.S. Marine Corps, for extraordinary heroism and distinguished service in the line of his profession as Commanding Officer and a Pilot of Marine Fighting Squadron TWO HUNDRED FIFTEEN (VMF-215), Marine Air Group FOURTEEN (MAG-14), FIRST Marine Aircraft Wing, in aerial combat against enemy Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands and Bismarck Archipelago Areas, from 5 January 1944 to 15 February 1944.

A brilliant leader and aggressive airman, Major Owens executed numerous combat missions against the enemy, frequently in the face of heavy hostile antiaircraft fire and strong aerial opposition. While carrying out these vital assignments during this period, he shot down seven enemy aircraft and probably destroyed five others. Maintaining his squadron at the peak of combat readiness through an efficient training schedule for pilots, he contributed materially to the outstanding success of his squadron in inflicting extensive losses upon the enemy and in providing effective fighter cover for our bombers. By his valiant leadership and unwavering devotion to duty, Major Owens upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Following WWII, he served the Marine Corps in various capacities and locations. Brigadier General Owens was ordered to the Republic of Vietnam in 1966, where he served as Assistant Wing Commander, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing and as Chief of Staff, III Marine Amphibious Force. Upon return to the United States, he again served at Headquarters Marine Corps as Assistant Chief of Staff and was promoted to Major General, September 1, 1968. In 1969, he was an honorary pallbearer at President Dwight D. Eisenhower's funeral. Owens retired from the Marine Corps on August 1, 1972. Major General Robert Gordon Owens, Jr. died in Boulder, Colorado, on October 31, 2003. He is buried in Arlington National Cemetery.

[R Leonard]

Black Widow type Navy Crosses are not so unusual, most of the type were awarded in the 1941-1943 period.  My father's, awarded for action at the Coral Sea, is of the type.  The sinister name came from the Battle of Midway where so many were posthumous, especially amongst VT-3, VT-6, and VT-8.

[R Leonard]

That's a nice cigarette box, BTW.  A fairly common gift of the day.  I have the one given as a wedding present to my parents from my father's squadron, VF-42, dated 13 Sep 1941.  Growing up you'd see similar in living rooms of my parents contemporaries.  When we knew company was coming to the house, it was, among other duties, my job to polish and fill the cigarette boxes.  There were two, one from VF-42 and one from VX-3.