Jump to content
bobgee

The Navy Cross - 1920 -1944

Recommended Posts

Thought perhaps the medal collectors out there might like to see closeups of the 1931 NAVY CROSS with original ribbon bar as awarded to Col. Archer and shown on the USMC Navy Cross Nicaragua thread posted previously. As shown below, it appears to be what is referred to as the "Black Widow" type from the early WWII era but it is not.

 

Creat0001A.JPGCreat0001.JPG

 

Below are three different period Navy Crosses for comparison.

 

Navy_Cross_Comp_OBV.JPG

Navy_Cross_Comp_REV.JPG

 

On the viewer's left is a 1943 award of a so-called "Black Widow" type cross. It is of one-piece construction, finished in gun-metal black on all metal parts. Note the full-wrap brooch with ball-type lock, as manufactured by the U.S. Mint under Navy contact. In 1944, the cross was awarded in a bronze finish (not shown).

 

In the middle is Col. Archer's 1931 award, which is clearly transitional. It has a U.S. Mint split brooch with ball-type lock and is of three-piece construction, i.e. both disks are manufactured separately and braised to the obverse & reverse of the cross, just like it's WWI original counterpart, but it is finished in a medium dark bronze finish on all metal parts. Not too many of these "between the wars" Crosses are known as the award numbers were few.

 

On the right is the first type WWI Cross as awarded to Capt. Wass USMC in 1920. It is of three-piece construction and finished in a pleasing bronze finish, as is the split brooch. However, note that this production, manufactured by Bailey, Banks and Biddle of Philadephia, has an open catch. The ribbon is of the original production with a narrow 1/8th inch white center stripe. Unfortunately it is deteriorating which is a common problem for this early silk ribbon. The ribbons on the earlier Crosses are Navy Blue, appearing almost black. The later ones are ribboned with a slightly lighter blue color.

 

Please feel free to ask any questions.

Bobgee


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif
"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting such great medals for us. Its very helpful to see them side by side for comparison. Do you know why the NC made their ribbons one and a half inches wide? I dont believe a SS PH or DSC of the same vintage were made that way.


donation2007.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif
donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 





Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for posting such great medals for us. Its very helpful to see them side by side for comparison. Do you know why the NC made their ribbons one and a half inches wide? I dont believe a SS PH or DSC of the same vintage were made that way.

 

Sorry, I don't know specifically. I've got to assume that the Navy Dept specified it at the time. Perhaps more specific info is hidden away in a reference. I'll keep my eye out. Or, maybe a Forum member can answer the question?

Thanks....Bobgee


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif
"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob,

Thanks for posting your Navy Cross photos .Here are 2 from my collection the left one is the early one and the right is from VN.

To add to the thread the early one has its issues with the ribbon but I'm leaving it in its original shape.

Thanks Dan

post-2552-1228098790.jpg

post-2552-1228098799.jpg


donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob, thank you for sharing these period original medals - excellent visual reference for the forum. Re the "deteriorating which is a common problem for this early silk ribbon" - are there any methods by which this can be stopped and or controlled? s/f Darrell



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob, Thanks for the education - I love these NC's as much if not more than the DSC's. When I started acquiring WW1 Navy Cross groupings, I was unaware that there were three different criteria in which one could receive the NC. - I'm sure you know that all were not awarded for valor. My Navy Cross group to Roben was awarded for Merit while a squadron commander in the First Marine Aviation Forces. He was however cited for valor (and wounded) in Haiti. When purchasing a NC, one should determine what his citation reads as it plays a real part in determining value. The history of this award is a fun study!

 

Best, Dennis

 

By the way, - You have some wonderful items in your collection.


"RETREAT HELL.....WE JUST GOT HERE"

 

LOOKING TO PURCHASE IDENTIFIED WW1 AVIATION GROUPINGS, INCLUDING MEDALS, UNIFORMS, STUDIO PHOTOS.

PURCHASE ANY AND ALL ID'ED WW1 NAVY CORPSMAN OR PHYSICIAN GROUPINGS; MEDALS &/or UNIFORMS.

WW1 USMC ID'ED OFFICER'S GROUPS, esp. MARINE AVIATORS -

ANY LARGE FORMAT 5X7 OR LARGER IMAGES OF MARINE OFFICERS & AERO PILOTS

 

 

Collecting/Preserving/Researching WW1 Marine Corps Items and WW1 Aviation Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob, Thanks for the education - I love these NC's as much if not more than the DSC's. When I started acquiring WW1 Navy Cross groupings, I was unaware that there were three different criteria in which one could receive the NC. - I'm sure you know that all were not awarded for valor. My Navy Cross group to Roben was awarded for Merit while a squadron commander in the First Marine Aviation Forces. He was however cited for valor (and wounded) in Haiti. When purchasing a NC, one should determine what his citation reads as it plays a real part in determining value. The history of this award is a fun study!

 

Best, Dennis

 

By the way, - You have some wonderful items in your collection.

 

 

Thanks, Dennis. Check out this link for Col. Archer's medals. You may have missed his Navy Cross for Professionalism in Nicaragua.

Semper Fi......Bobgee

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry233917


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif
"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks, Dennis. Check out this link for Col. Archer's medals. You may have missed his Navy Cross for Professionalism in Nicaragua.

Semper Fi......Bobgee

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry233917

 

 

 

Bob,

 

I did miss this link! - Your "pile" makes one quite humble. Just incredible! Thank you -

 

Dennis


"RETREAT HELL.....WE JUST GOT HERE"

 

LOOKING TO PURCHASE IDENTIFIED WW1 AVIATION GROUPINGS, INCLUDING MEDALS, UNIFORMS, STUDIO PHOTOS.

PURCHASE ANY AND ALL ID'ED WW1 NAVY CORPSMAN OR PHYSICIAN GROUPINGS; MEDALS &/or UNIFORMS.

WW1 USMC ID'ED OFFICER'S GROUPS, esp. MARINE AVIATORS -

ANY LARGE FORMAT 5X7 OR LARGER IMAGES OF MARINE OFFICERS & AERO PILOTS

 

 

Collecting/Preserving/Researching WW1 Marine Corps Items and WW1 Aviation Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, I don't know specifically. I've got to assume that the Navy Dept specified it at the time. Perhaps more specific info is hidden away in a reference. I'll keep my eye out. Or, maybe a Forum member can answer the question?

Thanks....Bobgee

 

 

I do not know if i can reproduce this or not OMSA book. However, I will for the sake of education and for educational purpose only. This OMSA book has been in my possesion for sometime. 1994. It is 1-9

I hope this helps this thread BOB.

4starchris

post-387-1228614253.jpg



donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

post-387-1228618866.jpg

 

9-9a

 

I hope this helps. I had to divide some of the page to be ablt to upload them.

Bob thanks for letting me post on the thread.

4starchris



donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forum members:

 

You are in the MEDALS & DECORATIONS "Reference Section". This area is where posts from the general Medals & Decorations "discussion section" (http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showforum=83) are moved for permanent retention and education about the history of the various U.S. medals and military decorations.

 

As time moves forward, some of these posts may have additional information added to them by the moderators of this section. We ask for your input as well, especially in the correction of any erroneous information that may have inadvertently be posted..

 

We encourage further comments about this post and its content. In order to do so, you will need to start a new post in the general Medals & Decorations "discussion section" (here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind....?showforum=83). And, as needed, we will be pleased to move any new and / or valued information that is derived from your post (and subsequent comments) into this reference area as its own standing post.

 

Please be advised: posting and / or editing is restricted on this post to moderator's and forum staff.

 

Sincerely,

Chris / ADMIN


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Please feel free to ask any questions.

Bobgee

Can you make pictures of rim of col. Archer's NX ?

Thank you !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.