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24th ID LRRP patch(?)


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Patchcollector

Hi all,
I think that this patch has been ID'd as the 24th LRRP.I believe that they were stationed in Germany in the late 50's/early 60's timeframe.That's about all I know.I'm hoping to find out more about the patch because I've never seen an authentic one to compare it with.

 

 

Thanks!

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post-13386-0-08293600-1531707370.jpg

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Patchcollector

Over 200 views and no comments?If anyone can let me know if this is an authentic piece I would appreciate it.

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I don't think anyone on the forum knows if this is an authentic piece or not. There seems to be an abundance of insignia (including this patch) that has surfaced over the years attributed to the LRRP Detachment of the 24th ID during the beginning of LRP or LRRP in the USAREUR. I have seen this patch up for bid on eBay as part of a grouping circa 2009 that I kept a picture of (see below) however have no reference to indicate if it is real or fake. It could have been a prototype piece that was never worn or a complete fantasy piece. There is very little "insignia" information with any provenance concerning this LRRP Detachment. Here is a link to the 24th ID in the 1960s when they were in Germany but there is very little information about their LRRP Detachment.

 

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/units/24th%20Inf%20Div/USAREUR_24th%20Inf%20Div.htm

 

 

 

 

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post-1389-0-17575900-1532025176_thumb.jpg

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There is also a matching DI but like the patch there is no reference that I have ever come across with any provenance or photograph of anyone wearing this DI or the patch. There is one black and white photograph that is attributed to this unit but they are wearing fatigues in the field without any insignia other than shoulder rank and black berets but you can't see the beret badge due to the angle in the photo of the berets they are wearing.

 

 

 

 

post-1389-0-16796200-1532025589_thumb.jpg

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I have no knowledge of this patch, but it looks like Asian embroidery to me rather than something out of Germany in that period, am I missing something?

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Patchcollector

I don't think anyone on the forum knows if this is an authentic piece or not. There seems to be an abundance of insignia (including this patch) that has surfaced over the years attributed to the LRRP Detachment of the 24th ID during the beginning of LRP or LRRP in the USAREUR. I have seen this patch up for bid on eBay as part of a grouping circa 2009 that I kept a picture of (see below) however have no reference to indicate if it is real or fake. It could have been a prototype piece that was never worn or a complete fantasy piece. There is very little "insignia" information with any provenance concerning this LRRP Detachment. Here is a link to the 24th ID in the 1960s when they were in Germany but there is very little information about their LRRP Detachment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Tonomachi for posting the images and info.I find it encouraging to see this piece in a group of other 24th related patches.Here is a 24th LRRP piece that I found on the LJMilitaria site.It shares the same type of construction as mine.

post-13386-0-85503600-1532146992_thumb.jpg

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Patchcollector

I have no knowledge of this patch, but it looks like Asian embroidery to me rather than something out of Germany in that period, am I missing something?

 

 

Thanks for your comment.While the Indian Head piece is made differently than the others,I see no reason to discount it for that.I've learned to not paint myself into a corner by stating that a patch must look a certain way or it is not authentic.I did that a few times in the past and before long a differently made one appeared to prove me wrong. :lol:

 

Sometimes the more important question is not where it was made but who made it.I recall an interesting discussion about Vietnam War theatre made patches and discovered that some enterprising Indians were also producing patches incountry.

 

 

Here is a link to that thread:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92739-a-challenge-to-thai-made-thinking/?hl=%2Bindian+%2Bmade+%2Bpatches+%2Bvietnam

 

 

In the above thread I also learned that Koreans,Chinese and Filipinos were also producing patches for wear during the war.Each group tended to have their own style,and thankfully some documentation still exists to clear up some of the misconceptions that have arisen over the years about these pieces.

 

 

So nowadays when I see a patch that doesn't follow the pattern of other pieces made from that region/era,I don't automatically write it off like I used to.

 

 

As seen in the post above to Tonomachi I found another differently designed 24th LRRP patch that is made the same way as the one I initially posted.Where and by who were these made?I do not know.

 

Hopefully new info will come forth that can shed new light on these pieces.Until then,having no info to the contrary I'm going to assume that they are authentic.

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  • 2 years later...
Jess Guaderrama

This is a real 24th Inf. Div patch and also a badge. I served in the 24th Inf. Div LRRP from 1960 - 1964. It was started in 1959 and led by Lt. Donald Barlow. This a picture taken of the LRRP field comm center. I am the one on your left. If you look closely at the berate you can see the edge of the metal badge that looks exactly like the patch. I started as a radio operator within a 5 man patrol and later became the comm center chief. We were later led by Lt. Joesph Stillwell ( yes, vinegar Joe Stillwell's grandson. We nick named him "pickles". He was an exact copy of General Stillwell look. 

LRRP in the field.jpg

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Tonomachi
3 hours ago, Jess Guaderrama said:

This is a real 24th Inf. Div patch and also a badge. I served in the 24th Inf. Div LRRP from 1960 - 1964. It was started in 1959 and led by Lt. Donald Barlow. This a picture taken of the LRRP field comm center. I am the one on your left. If you look closely at the berate you can see the edge of the metal badge that looks exactly like the patch. I started as a radio operator within a 5 man patrol and later became the comm center chief. We were later led by Lt. Joesph Stillwell ( yes, vinegar Joe Stillwell's grandson. We nick named him "pickles". He was an exact copy of General Stillwell look. 

LRRP in the field.jpg

Many thanks for the confirmation as there are so many bogus insignia out there in the collecting community it is nice to get confirmation from the veteran himself who wore the insignia.  This was the photograph I was referring to in Post #4 that was associated with the insignia but there wasn't enough detail to make out the insignia on the beret.  Was the patch worn on the pocket or on the shoulder of working fatigues or maybe on the dress uniform?  Do you remember where the insignia was sourced like off base or maybe a special order through the PX?  Is this a stateside photograph or overseas?  Was the insignia and berets authorized wear in the field only or maybe only overseas at the particular post you were stationed out of through local authority but not stateside?  Thanks in advance for your help.  

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Jess Guaderrama

Well, the patch and the badge WERE NOT authorized through official\ channels and after about 2 months we were told that we could not wear the beret or the badge, The picture was taken on a field exercise in Southern Germany.

 

My entry into the world of LRRP is kind of humorous. I was assigned to the heavy motor battery of the 34th Inf / 24th Inf Div is Augsburg Germany. The barracks had been used by the German Luftwaffe during WW-2 and were in excellent condition. The 34th Inf mail room was in the basement of Hq & Hq company on Sheridan Kasserne. One day I had occasion to go to the mail room and while there I heard some Morse code coming from behind a huge metal door at the end of the basement. Having been a ham radio operator for a few years I started writing the 5 letter code groups on the back of an envelope. When they stopped sending I walked over and knocked on the door. I was greeted by a very stern face young Lt Donald Barlow. He asked when I wanted I just showed him what I had written on the envelope. His eyes got really big and he told me to come in. Then he asked how fast I could copy code and I told him "about 25 words per minute sir". He set up a code machine and put me to the test. Once I proved that I was not bluffing, he assigned MSgt Vachon to detail two men to escort me to my bunk, pack everything up and move me over to the LRRP section.

 

They conveniently forgot to tell Capt Whitmere (the company commander) where I had gone and I was carried as AWOL from Hvy Mtr Batry for about a week until they got everything ironed out. Ah yes, dem were da days.

 

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Tonomachi

Great story and information concerning these pieces of insignia.   Thanks for sharing this with the collecting community.  

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scotty1418
On 6/3/2021 at 10:36 AM, Jess Guaderrama said:

Well, the patch and the badge WERE NOT authorized through official\ channels and after about 2 months we were told that we could not wear the beret or the badge, The picture was taken on a field exercise in Southern Germany.

 

My entry into the world of LRRP is kind of humorous. I was assigned to the heavy motor battery of the 34th Inf / 24th Inf Div is Augsburg Germany. The barracks had been used by the German Luftwaffe during WW-2 and were in excellent condition. The 34th Inf mail room was in the basement of Hq & Hq company on Sheridan Kasserne. One day I had occasion to go to the mail room and while there I heard some Morse code coming from behind a huge metal door at the end of the basement. Having been a ham radio operator for a few years I started writing the 5 letter code groups on the back of an envelope. When they stopped sending I walked over and knocked on the door. I was greeted by a very stern face young Lt Donald Barlow. He asked when I wanted I just showed him what I had written on the envelope. His eyes got really big and he told me to come in. Then he asked how fast I could copy code and I told him "about 25 words per minute sir". He set up a code machine and put me to the test. Once I proved that I was not bluffing, he assigned MSgt Vachon to detail two men to escort me to my bunk, pack everything up and move me over to the LRRP section.

 

They conveniently forgot to tell Capt Whitmere (the company commander) where I had gone and I was carried as AWOL from Hvy Mtr Batry for about a week until they got everything ironed out. Ah yes, dem were da days.

 

What a story!!

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  • 2 months later...

I want to post this beret which I have in my collection.  The seller didn't know what it was.  I'm assuming that it's real.  One interesting thing about it is that it has four holes through the cardboard stiffener, indicating that a badge had once been there.  They appear to be clutch-back holes.  The photos I've seen of this unit's badge show pin-backs however, although I don't know if they were reproductions.

IMG_0002 3.jpg

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Tonomachi
1 hour ago, MPage said:

I want to post this beret which I have in my collection.  The seller didn't know what it was.  I'm assuming that it's real.  One interesting thing about it is that it has four holes through the cardboard stiffener, indicating that a badge had once been there.  They appear to be clutch-back holes.  The photos I've seen of this unit's badge show pin-backs however, although I don't know if they were reproductions.

IMG_0002 3.jpg

I used to come across a lot of used military surplus berets with those four holes you are talking about.  They were all West German berets as different units all wore the same size large oval shaped thin metal beret badge of different designs with these same four attachment prongs.   Below is a picture of one.  My guess is that your beret started off life as a West German armored beret before it was repurposed in West Germany by this US LRRP soldier.

s-l1600 (5).jpg

s-l1600 (4).jpg

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59 minutes ago, Tonomachi said:

I used to come across a lot of used military surplus berets with those four holes you are talking about.  They were all West German berets as different units all wore the same size large oval shaped thin metal beret badge of different designs with these same four attachment prongs.   Below is a picture of one.  My guess is that your beret started off life as a West German armored beret before it was repurposed in West Germany by this US LRRP soldier.

 

 

 Yes, I'm looking at examples of berets with those holes, online, and they are just as you said...

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