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Just a ribbon bar?.......

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Purchased a small framed group of a former Captain Hall of the 36th Infantry Division.Along with the frame was a Bronze Star box.The Bronze Star Medal was in the frame with the Captains patches etc.In the box was a german ribbon bar.

 

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In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Those Germans loved those small devices on there ribbons. Do you know what there for?

 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

 


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The items had been offered for sale by Captain Halls daughter.There was no more family and the time had come to dispose of the items.She didnt want them going to an antique mall to be taken out of the frame and sold by the item.She had contacted a friend that did tag sales and the person contacted me to ask if I was interested in the items.I agree to buy them items.Picked them up from my friend and hadnt thought about the ribbon bar until the friend said he had spoken to the daughter again about the Captains service.

 

He then asked me if I knew what the ribbon bar stood for.I said it looked to be a Soldier who had served in WW1 and had two long service awards spanning the WW2 period as well.The other ribbons were not familiar to me.

 

At this point he asked if Rommel had a son? I thought the question a bit odd but stated yes he did.I stated I recall he served in WW2 and then was active in post war politics or government.I asked why the interest.He went on to say the daughter spoke of how her father(Capt Hall) had sent some of Rommels items back to the son in 1972 and asked me if I thought the ribbon bar could be Rommels? I replied Im not going to speculate as I am not familiar with his awards and I hadn't identified a couple of the ribbons or the devices on them.My curiosity did light a spark to look a bit closer.

 

I posted a couple photos on a forum or two to get opinions and replies and most were negative and at times typical.Even after asking if anyone could provide a list of his awards to rule it out as there were a couple pretty specific ribbons that not all officers would wear and may be a clue.No one was able to answer the question what were Rommel's awards.I also asked how many ribbon bars would Rommel had during his career and progession of rank?

 

Viewing photos on line I had seen several anomalies both in arrangement and wear but also a similarity n the ribbons and devices especially a enameled wreath.One photo would show Rommel with the iron cross 2nd class for WW1 worn on the bar and also a ribbon worn in the button hole of the tunic.The Spange would also be seen for additional award.Phots of the Spange would be seen with it on the ribbon bar and others hotos it wasn't on the bar.As I understand it regulation stated you didn't wear the ribbon in the button hole and on the bar at the same time but I wasn't sure this was even regulation but idf so who would tell a General/Field Marshall he wasn't with in the regualtions.Also if the bars were tailor made would the ribbon bars always look the same and would change as rank was gained or medals added etc.

 

I was open to information or criticism.I had found photos and could make out in one early photo in particular an 8 place ribbon bar that appeared to match but hadn't found a high resoulution photo.Later photos of the Fieldmarshall would show the devices on the ribbons but in a different order than the early photo.One colrized phot offered a clue but wasn't colorized wartime.

 

The photo I thought the best match for but not the clearest was the early one where Rommel is in front of the Eiffel tower.Here is that photo.

 

 

 

post-342-0-68922600-1529820071.jpg

 

 


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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A couple of color photos showing the variations and later awards due to the Knights Cross and oak leaves.These photos are post war colorized and don't reflect the colors as closely as the real ribbons but seen is the differences in bars and wearing order of the individual ribbons

 

post-342-0-14490800-1529820238.jpg

 

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In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Going backwards a bit I looked into Captain Halls infatry unit and the unit was actually occupied the town of Rommels home or appeared to have been there.The daughter had also have a few other items that were of paper content,books etc that were not returned to Rommels son.I wasnt able to further pursue this as she was terminally ill and not avaiable.After she passed away I was later told that the remaing items had been scattered to a brother in law out of state and no information to contact him was known.

 

So the mystery continues and the case of buy the item or buy the story often is applied where here I bought the item and the story came later.

 

Thanks for the views and opinions welcome.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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post-342-0-12330800-1529820759.jpg

post-342-0-12449800-1529820793_thumb.jpg


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Hello Ron, what a great story and if nothings else this comes mighty close to being Rommels ribbon bar. Here is another shot of Rommel and that ribbon bar.

post-169612-0-52720700-1529829912_thumb.jpg

Rene

 

 


Never give in - never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense.

 

Churchill

 

Keep buggering on.

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Wow that last photo clinches it for me...awesome...mike


Always looking for and buying 50's era 11th Airborne/ 187th ARCT/ 82nd Airborne tac mark painted jump helmets!



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Looks like it to me. Great piece and this time I would buy the story also. Thanks for posting Ron. Mike


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It certainly appears to be the same ribbon bar. Nice catch!


RIP Molly...Oct. 2000 - July 2013 For 13 years you have been my best friend and companion, giving love and asking only for love in return. May you rest now, free from your pain. I will miss you girl, and will keep you in my heart forever....the sweetest dog and best friend ever! I'll see you again one day.


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Ron, nice, very nice. Rommel's son was a mayor,IIRC he passed a few years ago.


"The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him" G.K. Chesterton

"A people that values it's privileges above its principles will soon lose both" D.D. Eisenhower


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This possibility makes a cool, interesting piece a cooler, even more interesting piece!! Wow!

 

Frank


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Very cool Ron! It does appear to be the same and definitely warrants deeper investigation.

Thanks for sharing it.

 

JD


AAF Collector...........
**Always Buying WW2 Aviation Related Items: Especially Operation Tidal Wave items (1st Ploesti Raid) ..... WW2 Fighter Ace Related Items.....Higher End A-2 Flight Jacket Groups....AAF Related Valor Medal Groups**

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Looks like the story matches to me. Rommell’s son Manfred served in WWII and later became Mayor of Stuttgart. He regularly hosted US Soldiers, welcoming them to Germany and his city as there were dozens of kasernes around it where we all served.

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Hello Ron, what a great story and if nothings else this comes mighty close to being Rommels ribbon bar. Here is another shot of Rommel and that ribbon bar.

Rommel, Erwin.jpg

Rene

 

 

Rene

 

Thankyou for posting the photo.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Thanks to everyone who commented.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Rene

 

Another note on the photo posted.

 

Appears to be in the same time period of Rommels career due to the Knights Cross prior to the award of the oak leaf.

 

This said I find it interesting how the Wound badge and Tank Assault badge show different locations of wear in the two photos.

 

More indications showing not everything was always perfect or done the same even by top ranking officers.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Intriguing story Ron.

Kurt


My hobby is my job and my job is my hobby. High School and University History Instructor

 

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Wow! If true, that is amazing! Not just that it may be Rommel's, but also the story of how you ended up with it. Great sleuthing, Rene, to come up with that photo.

Mikie


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Intriguing story Ron.

Kurt

 

Yes it was.Would have like to seen the other things but that story wasn't one to be told.

 

Had this at the Minneapolis show a couple times on display.Non of the "super gurus" even took notice of it or totally ignored it.....to self absorbed in their own aura...then there was the blood order document the Captain also had framed.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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That's amazing. ...and what is a blood order document? Did Rommel's family ever talk about his personal belongings being taken?

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That's amazing. ...and what is a blood order document? Did Rommel's family ever talk about his personal belongings being taken?

 

THe Blood Order was a Medal with document that was awarded to those who were part of the putsch or its early organization that supported the movement prior to 1932.Many of the upper tier Nazis were reciepiants of the Blood Order.

 

I cant answer if the family of Rommel spoke of items taken.


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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