Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jim Baker

33rd Armored Regiment Guidon

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

I just picked up this great field made guidon. It appears to be made from two signal flags. It's definitely old and been folded up for awhile.

 

post-78-1227732995.jpg


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gif

 

 

Collecting WWII Armor and Tank Destroyer Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can see here it's dirty and the fold creases. I am going to have this framed and was looking for suggestions in terms of clean/don't clean, removing the creases, framing ideas, etc....

 

All comments are welcome, and thanks in advance!

 

post-78-1227733255.jpg


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gif

 

 

Collecting WWII Armor and Tank Destroyer Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, from Michel DeTrez of the Dead Man's Corner Museum.


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gif

 

 

Collecting WWII Armor and Tank Destroyer Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's pretty cool Jim! I'm not sure I'd attempt a cleaning (it doesn't look bad at all in the photos) but using some light steam to ease the wrinkles seems like a good idea before framing. Make sure you show us some photos after you have finished. Neat item thumbsup.gif


to all who have served!


donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

man thats a pretty neat find..ive never seen one before...i agree from the pics it doesnt look to bad actually gives it a nice "been there"look.


Regards,

 

Michael Sweeney--Researcher and Collector of WW2 77TH Division

If you have any named items to a 77th Division Soldier please contact me!!!

 

In memoroy of my Grandfather

Eugene Henry Sweeney

1st Lieutenant of the 306th

Infantry Regiment Company L -

Veteran of Guam and Leyte

 

 

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gif

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see you got it, amigo. thumbsup.gif

 

I wouldn't clean it too much or leave it like it is.

Just display it nicely in a frame with a small label underneath or maybe a 3AD patch.

 

Very nice item! drool2.gif

 

Erwin


704th Tank Destroyer Battalion

 

donation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know the original owner who sold his collection to MDT a couple of weeks ago very well.

Next time I see him I will ask some more details on the originin of the guidon...

 

Wonder who bought the 3AD Captain's helmet...


f_poll.gif '29th,Let's Go!' f_poll.gif

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi All,

 

I just picked up this great field made guidon. It appears to be made from two signal flags. It's definitely old and been folded up for awhile.

 

post-78-1227732995.jpg

 

Jim,

 

That would look so sweet with an Armor green matting and cut-outs with the 33rd Armored unit crests and the 3rd Armored Division patch. Set it off with an officers Armored BOS device in the center or even the officer's BOS on one side and the enlisted one on the opposite side if you wanted to put a little engraved plaque in the middle.

 

As far as cleaning it...the suggestions about the steam would be good. If it is stained or soiled, talk to a dry cleaner in you area that you are comfortable with about the options available....then cross your fingers. Looks like a nice find!

 

Laury


donation2008.gifdonation2009.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an after-thought...it would be super sweet to include a EAME Campaign Medal and a WWII Victory Medal to the mix...balancing them on either side. That would be an awesome grouping!!!!

 

Laury


donation2008.gifdonation2009.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys for the comments and so many great ideas!

 

I can see I'm going to have to give this some serious thought. I will deifinitely add a small plaque, I just have to figure out what to put on it. I don't want to go overkill. I like the DUI idea too. I have always liked that DUI (Men of War). It might look cool attached to one side of the little plaque.

 

Johan,

 

Any info from the original owner would be most welcome and appreciated. Thank you!! thumbsup.gif


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gif

 

 

Collecting WWII Armor and Tank Destroyer Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know the original owner who sold his collection to MDT a couple of weeks ago very well.

Next time I see him I will ask some more details on the originin of the guidon...

 

Wonder who bought the 3AD Captain's helmet...

 

That would be me thumbsup.gif


Visit my website http://www.m1helmetdepot.com/ for Nice M-1 helmets and parts

 

donation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That would be me thumbsup.gif

 

Thanks for letting us know... That nis one awesome helmet. I looked it over a couple of years ago...


f_poll.gif '29th,Let's Go!' f_poll.gif

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jim, nice guidon, appears that everyone likes it and will make a good wall mount, personally I wouldn't overdo the cleaning and pressing, I would leave some of it in there, the folds show it spent it's later life packed away, maybe in someones footlocker ?? thumbsup.gif

 

Regards ( Lewis )


.

Young enough to care and enjoy militaria - Old enough to remember as surplus

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

 

Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes 

 

.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks Johan! I hope to have it in my hands by Monday nerv0003.gif I cant wait to see it up close!!!

 

Nice snag on the helmet. He delivers very quickly.


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gif

 

 

Collecting WWII Armor and Tank Destroyer Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have declined to comment until I could get some research completed.

 

I believe a case to be made that this is for the 33rd Tank Bn, and not the Regiment, based upon the following:

 

Constituted 13 January 1941 in the Regular Army as the 3d Armored Regiment and assigned to the 3d Armored Division

 

Activated 15 April 1941 at Camp Beauregard, Louisiana

 

Redesignated 8 May 1941 as the 33d Armored Regiment

 

Inactivated 10 November 1945 in Germany

 

Regiment broken up 7 July 1947 and its elements redesignated as follows:

 

Regimental Headquarters and Headquarters Company, Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, and Companies A, D, E, and F as the 33d Tank Battalion, and remained assigned to the 3d Armored Division....remainder of units disbanded.

 

After 7 July 1947 the above units underwent changes as follows:

 

7th and 33d Tank Battalions activated 15 July 1947 at Fort Knox, Kentucky Reorganized and redesignated 30 July 1948 as the 7th and 33d Medium Tank Battalions, respectively Reorganized and redesignated 15 March 1955 as the 7th and 33d Tank Battalions, respectively 7th and 33d (less Company D) Tank Battalions inactivated 1 October 1957 in Germany and relieved from assignment to the 3d Armored Division....

 

There are two time periods during which the Mark VIII tank insignia applied:

 

1) From Feb 1942, when the insignia was authorized for Armored Forces (per TIOH), until Nov 1945, when 33rd AR was inactivated.

 

2) From July 1947, when 33rd Tank Bn. was activated, until 1952 when the new Armor branch insignia (M-26 Tank over crossed sabers) was approved.

 

Based upon the info that it appears the "guidon" was made from two signal flags, I concur. I believe that the code markings are consistent with those on post-WW II signal flags, but I am not an expert on these flags. Additionally, it appears the guidon background had the insignia sewn on upside down; signal flags had one end sewn shut (which went over the top of the small pole) and the strings were used to secure the bottom of the flag to the pole. Furthermore, the dimensions of this one differ significantly from that of guidon standards (I have three - two regulation and one occupation-made). Due to this size differential, it may not even be a unit guidon, but a souvenir memory for an officer or NCO.


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

Member, ASMIC.

Editor, ASMIC's The Trading Post

ASMIC Executive VP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

 

After looking through Sawicki's and Stanton's books, it was also my thought the guidon/flag was for the 33rd TB. The seller insisted it was made in the field for the 33rd AR.

 

The guidon/flag is old, and made of heavy canvas like material. I'm good with it either way and am curious what Johan can find out from the collector who owned it prior to Michel.

 

BTW, it is open at both ends and may have flown below another flag. Whatever it's original purpose, I believe the flag was used due to the (very) minor fray at the end of the fork. Based on the wear, I don't believe it was a souvenir. What would be nice is a period photo!


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gif

 

 

Collecting WWII Armor and Tank Destroyer Items

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Armor was assigned the colors green and white by circular 49 on 21 February 1947. When the Cavalry branch was abolished, the present Armor was assigned the former Cavalry color yellow by SR 600-60-1 dated 26 October 1951.

 

So this Guidon is from Feb 1947 to Oct 1951. It very well could have been field made for the Korean War. The Korean War started in June 1950.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The colors arent the issue with the guidon in question. Armored Force units used green and white during WWII. Those colors appeared on guidons, EM cap piping, distinctive insignia, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its WW2 coloring. Theres really not much of a debate on that point. Ive got a WW2 armor guidon with provenance, Ive seen others, period photos show it as well.


I like guidon flags. They're my bag, baby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought i would ad this one to the discussion. This 33rd armored regiment guidon was found in the home of Captain Thomas W Morrison. He was B company commander until wounded on November 18, 1944.

 

post-7425-0-22883000-1560119501.jpg

 

post-7425-0-79001400-1560119517.jpg post-7425-0-60378400-1560119531.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn thats a nice guidon and pic.


I like guidon flags. They're my bag, baby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice flags! I used to have a 33rd, but in a moment of weakness sold it to a friend from Chicago, after his passing I have always wondered where that might have ended up. :(


Mr.JERRY
Collector of WWI & WWII Home Front Flags, Unit Flags & Guidons,US & German helmets, insignia, uniforms, medals,

Women's Military Uniforms,Wisconsin Vocational School made Fighting Knives.

Military Shop Owner & Dealer in everything else~!


donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Check out our Facebook page for updates and the latest Shop news!:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Military-Collectibles-Shop/171226792906875
Visit our website (and visit our shop if you are ever near Milwaukee, WI USA)
http://www.militarycollectorsHQ.com

See what Mr.Jerry has on eBay this week:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/mr.jerry/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=1&_rdc=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.