M-1C Vietnam with lots of graffiti, Maybe 1st Cav opinions please

[P-59A]

One of the places listed on the LZ side I did not list due to it being too faded to read looks like JAE KOO under different lighting. This comes back to nothing on line. Of the LZ's I can read I can find nothing on Apache, Arapaho and Glade. I found operation Glade but no LZ GLADE. All of the other LZ's are tied to the locations and they all fall into 1966-68 and they are all connected to the 1st Air Cav.

[P-59A]

The two places I listed as DAP DA and DAP DOC could be DAP BA and DAP BOC. I still have no idea what they are.

[P-59A]

Tuy Hoa was an air base and July 1966 1st Cav did operations in defense of the base.

[P-59A]

Kontume is spelled as Kontum and was associated with operation Paul Reveer IV 1966.

[P-59A]

As of now this is what I know and at the bottom I have no idea.

[P-59A]

I just got around to looking at the liner. It has a Westinghouse logo and the number 106. Ink stamped near the snap is a white 4-.

[kammo-man]

I like this lid a lot.

Ticks all my cool as F boxes.

owen

[P-59A]

Now for the really good stuff. On the left side of the helmet are names of places. Some of the ink is so faded that I am not sure if I read it right. Those places will have a question mark after them. TUY HOA, DAP DA ?, DAP DOC?, PHU MY, LONG BINH, PHU CAT, AN KHE, BONG SON, BINH DINH, PLEI KU, CAM RHAN BAY, KONTUME, DOC CO, NHA TRANG.

I forgot DA NANG.

[doyler]

When I was poking around this in the sun I noticed a vertical yellow orange line on the back of the helmet under the Mitchell. I can't pull the liner off to look at this. Any ideas?

Its a good thing the liner wont come out...means the set has been together a very long time.Also I wouldnt pull it apart as it will never be the same once its removed.

 

Agree there is a lot of 1st Cav connections there.Great helmet.

 

As for the spelling of "Kontume" I wouldnt be concerned.Not everyone is a spelling bee champ.Plus the vietnamese lanquage can be a bit tricky to say the least.To me I would be more concerned if everything was perfect.

[P-59A]

Its a good thing the liner wont come out...means the set has been together a very long time.Also I wouldnt pull it apart as it will never be the same once its removed.

 

Agree there is a lot of 1st Cav connections there.Great helmet.

 

As for the spelling of "Kontume" I wouldnt be concerned.Not everyone is a spelling bee champ.Plus the vietnamese lanquage can be a bit tricky to say the least.To me I would be more concerned if everything was perfect.

Thanks Doyler, Do have any idea of what that orange yellow stripe seen on the back of the helmet under the Mitchell is?

[P-59A]

https://vva.vietnam.ttu.edu/repositories/2/digital_objects/463200

This site covers 1st Cav 1965-67 with maps. With the exception of the names I can't figure out and the unknown LZ's everything lines up.

[doyler]

Thanks Doyler, Do have any idea of what that orange yellow stripe seen on the back of the helmet under the Mitchell is?

NO REAL IDEA.

 

I have seen masking tape used on helmets from time to time or residue from tape.

 

Mostly from having a training connection or a place to write a name etc.

[P-59A]

NO REAL IDEA.

 

I have seen masking tape used on helmets from time to time or residue from tape.

 

Mostly from having a training connection or a place to write a name etc.

HA! It is tape that yellowed. I can't see enough to find any writing, the tape is in the area of an inch wide and looks like masking tape. Well done!

[thomasglover]

The misspelling of place names is also a good sign. The average trooper wouldnt have a map, wouldnt even know where they were half the time. Theyd just maybe ask the COs RTO and write it as it sounded. Place names could also have been written from memory at the end of his tour to make it a souvenir. As I said its one of the very few in-country lids I like the look of.

[P-59A]

The misspelling of place names is also a good sign. The average trooper wouldnt have a map, wouldnt even know where they were half the time. Theyd just maybe ask the COs RTO and write it as it sounded. Place names could also have been written from memory at the end of his tour to make it a souvenir. As I said its one of the very few in-country lids I like the look of.

Thanks thomasglove, The LZ's and "Operations" are in a different ink and show massive to minimal fading. This indicates they were written at the time related to place to me. The place names are in a different ink and look to have been written around the same time frame except for the DAP DA or DAP BA and DAP DOC or DAP BOC or whatever they are. LZ Arapaho and Apache look like they should link to Cheyene as a number of the LZ's I have read about are linked to an operation like LZ Red, White and Blue are linked to one operation. I just can't find LZ Arapaho or Apache anyplace. Yours David

[P-59A]

I just found another operation. Look above the operation pershing line and just above that operation you can just make out some of the letters that spell operation. I have no idea what operation it is yet. Another type light may make those letters pop.

[P-59A]

Connecting the dots as to the places and the places as they relate to the LZ'S is important. They point towards 1st Cav. The question now is what unit in the 1st Cav was running around all these places in late 65', all of 66' into early 67'? I know there was a big push to take it to the enemy and the 1st Cav was the tip of the spear. This guy was all over the place.

[P-59A]

This looks like Japanese KOO. By the way can you see the red now?

[P-59A]

Above the slit looks like A1. I am still seeing red.

[P-59A]

Above the top operation you can just make out "tion" with stuff to the left and right of it.

[ArchangelDM]

Interesting to say the least, only comment I can make is that the writing looks IMHO to be the same pen and done at the same time.

 

With helmets I own I tend to see differences In pen and style due to different times it was written. One helmet that comes to mind is the Metsker Helmet, everything seems to be pretty uniform on this lid.

 

What I would like to add is that that the cover has been on there a very very long time and that yellowing is what I look for.

Maybe this lid was penned all at the same time In theatre, is there a name anywhere.

 

Dean

[Username]

I like this one a lot. You can definitely tell it hasn't been messed with in a long time.

[P-59A]

Interesting to say the least, only comment I can make is that the writing looks IMHO to be the same pen and done at the same time.

 

With helmets I own I tend to see differences In pen and style due to different times it was written. One helmet that comes to mind is the Metsker Helmet, everything seems to be pretty uniform on this lid.

 

What I would like to add is that that the cover has been on there a very very long time and that yellowing is what I look for.

Maybe this lid was penned all at the same time In theatre, is there a name anywhere.

 

Dean

Hey Dean, To my eye I see three different pens. 1) California and Short are in black ink, the letters were formed by using a felt tip pen to create block letters and filling it in. 2) The LZ's are in blue ink and made with a pen with one stroke used to form the letters. 3) The place names are in black ink and look to of had more than one stroke on the same lines on many of the letters. I have the benefit of having this in hand and looking under magnification with a number of light variations. The fading with the blue ink is more pronounced from top of pot to the bottom. That first operation is almost totally washed out. The line below that is more pronounced and the line below that even more so. This indicates to me it was not written at the same time. If this had been written at one time on the way home I would have no variation in ink. The same can be said for the LZ's, If they were all written on the same day I would not have so many variations in ink density. The camera makes things look more pronounced than they really are. While I am at it I think an argument can be made that water is the cause of much of the distortions in ink density. If you look you will notice the fade outs are more pronounced at the upper part of the cover and the ink is more stable as you look to the sides. On the place side of the cover I see distortions of the ink with the names. Again the distortions are more pronounced towards the top of the cover and less so as you look down. I think water is a factor with this too. I also think they were written at a latter time than the LZ side. I think this because the fading is less pronounced. I think it more likely this was written while he was still in country, but on the tail end of his tour. So, that is what I see. Yours David

[P-59A]

This looks like Japanese KOO. By the way can you see the red now?

I didn't goof, auto politicaly correct spell check changed what I wrote. J A P KOO

[ArchangelDM]

Hey Dean, To my eye I see three different pens. 1) California and Short are in black ink, the letters were formed by using a felt tip pen to create block letters and filling it in. 2) The LZ's are in blue ink and made with a pen with one stroke used to form the letters. 3) The place names are in black ink and look to of had more than one stroke on the same lines on many of the letters. I have the benefit of having this in hand and looking under magnification with a number of light variations. The fading with the blue ink is more pronounced from top of pot to the bottom. That first operation is almost totally washed out. The line below that is more pronounced and the line below that even more so. This indicates to me it was not written at the same time. If this had been written at one time on the way home I would have no variation in ink. The same can be said for the LZ's, If they were all written on the same day I would not have so many variations in ink density. The camera makes things look more pronounced than they really are. While I am at it I think an argument can be made that water is the cause of much of the distortions in ink density. If you look you will notice the fade outs are more pronounced at the upper part of the cover and the ink is more stable as you look to the sides. On the place side of the cover I see distortions of the ink with the names. Again the distortions are more pronounced towards the top of the cover and less so as you look down. I think water is a factor with this too. I also think they were written at a latter time than the LZ side. I think this because the fading is less pronounced. I think it more likely this was written while he was still in country, but on the tail end of his tour. So, that is what I see. Yours David

Hi David

I agree with some of your points. Water and environment are normally the cause to ink deterioration so lighter and heavier fade.

What puzzles me is that its got all this writing but its not named. Not saying everyone named their helmets but this has enough writing on it to think he would have done somewhere.

With regards to the writing I see a lot of the same through out, some lines might be thicker but he could have gone over it at any time. Unfortunately without the provenance of who the helmet belonged too and proof of where its been you will just never know when its been written.

I do like the look of the cover but I just cant say its an in theatre written piece or that its not.

 

Yours

Dean