WWI Aviation Quartermaster

[CUBUSMC]

OK, I have a question for a more seasoned Navy rate collectors. I am under the understanding that all navy rates are worn on the left arm and I believe that goes back to the creation of the aviation branch ratings during WWI. Yet, I have seen the Aviation Quartermaster worn on both the left and the right sleeves. In fact I have seen it now on several occasions. The link below is one such example. I also have an old jumper in my collection with the Aviation Quartermaster on the right sleeve. I just figured that someone added it and did it wrong. Was this rate ever worn on the right sleeve or are all these jumpers made up? I have looked at vintage photos and I have not seen any real good photos of the Aviation Quartermaster being worn. Thanks and Semper Fi - Jeff

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWI-US-Navy-1918-Aviation-Quartermaster-Petty-Officer-Rate-2-Class-Uniform-Named/113038113114?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

[David Minton]

Your question is somewhat complicated, and unfortunately I don't have my reference books with me.

 

If I recall, rates were worn on left or right leave to indicate port or starboard watch. I believe around WWI (can't recall) that it was standardized that Seaman Branch rates would be worn on the right leave, while all other rates were worn on the left sleeve. In May of 1941, the eagle for non seaman rates switched to face the left, so the eagle would face forward when worn on the left sleeve, while seaman rates continued to face right and be worn on the right. In 1948, ratings were standardized and al rates faced left, and all were worn on the left sleeve.

 

Also, I think USCG used the same rates, but had different regulations on which sleeve it was worn, and which way the eagle faced, at least prior to WWII.

 

As for your rating, not sure what to say. It may well be put together. That particular rating is expensive, though nowhere near what that jumper is going for.

 

If I am not recalling details accurately, I am open to being corrected.

[Justin B.]

OK, I have a question for a more seasoned Navy rate collectors. I am under the understanding that all navy rates are worn on the left arm and I believe that goes back to the creation of the aviation branch ratings during WWI. Yet, I have seen the Aviation Quartermaster worn on both the left and the right sleeves. In fact I have seen it now on several occasions. The link below is one such example. I also have an old jumper in my collection with the Aviation Quartermaster on the right sleeve. I just figured that someone added it and did it wrong. Was this rate ever worn on the right sleeve or are all these jumpers made up? I have looked at vintage photos and I have not seen any real good photos of the Aviation Quartermaster being worn. Thanks and Semper Fi - Jeff

 

Tricky question. At that time, the rating was "Quartermaster, Aviation," and of course Quartermaster was a seaman branch rate. When the badges for aviation ratings were authorized in March 1918, the regulation specified that they were for ratings "attached" to aviation, and were authorized "in all three branches." The badges illustrated were for QM(A), CM(A) and MM(A). I have never seen any navy pay tables 1918-1921 that listed the aviation rates, and it would be odd to specify "three branches" if there were no seaman/avaition ratings intended, so it's a fair interpretation of the regs that QM(A) was still considered part of the seaman branch and the badge worn on the right.

 

USN Uniform Regulations 1913, Change 17, 18 Mar 1918.

 

[Justin B.]

USN Uniform Regulations 1913, Change 17, 18 Mar 1918, cont'd.

 

[manayunkman]

The rate in question.

 

 

 

[manayunkman]

The set.

 

 

 

 

[CUBUSMC]

Well that makes some sense, I found this link that clearly shows Quartermaster (Aviation) in the seaman branch. I don't know for a fact, but I assume the earlier jumpers had it on the right sleeve and then perhaps the later jumpers moved it to the left arm? I realize the rate was not around very long. If anyone has any more info, please let me know. Semper Fi - Jeff

 

http://uniform-reference.net/insignia/usn/usn_enl_ww1.html

[Justin B.]

Well that makes some sense, I found this link that clearly shows Quartermaster (Aviation) in the seaman branch. I don't know for a fact, but I assume the earlier jumpers had it on the right sleeve and then perhaps the later jumpers moved it to the left arm? I realize the rate was not around very long. If anyone has any more info, please let me know. Semper Fi - Jeff

 

http://uniform-reference.net/insignia/usn/usn_enl_ww1.html

 

Yeah I wrote that. I used to show QM(A) listed under Artificer Branch, but I can't find any official document to support that.

 

I have to assume that the rules were interpreted and enforced locally. Certainly aviation personnel recruited during the war were not trained in the same manner as seamen. But a literal interpretation of the regulations is that Quartermaster, Aviation was a sub-set of Quartermaster, and that was Seaman Branch and a right-arm rate. But variation in a new organization like naval aviation, and in wartime, is to be expected.

 

Justin B.

[MastersMate]

The attached is a small item from Flying, the magazine of the Aero Club of America.. It is a solicitation for men of various trades with a background suited for aviation. It particularly notes QM, Aviation, a general rating title given for those skilled in aircraft rigging and other airplane building skills. At the time, it took just about an act of congress to establish a new USN rating. Sub specialties could be created and connected with an established rating. I believe QM, pigeon was created about the same time. As there was no Aviation Branch in 1918, it would make sense that the QM, aviation would be a part of the Artificer Branch.

[sigsaye]

The attached is a small item from Flying, the magazine of the Aero Club of America.. It is a solicitation for men of various trades with a background suited for aviation. It particularly notes QM, Aviation, a general rating title given for those skilled in aircraft rigging and other airplane building skills. At the time, it took just about an act of congress to establish a new USN rating. Sub specialties could be created and connected with an established rating. I believe QM, pigeon was created about the same time. As there was no Aviation Branch in 1918, it would make sense that the QM, aviation would be a part of the Artificer Branch.

. Something to keep in mind, is that until mid-late 1918, there were no Aviation Specific Rating Badges. Aviation personnel wore standard Navy rating badges, with a small winged propeller on the left forearm. So, it would make sense, if before aviation rating badges, QM was on the right, after they added wings, it was still worn on the right, until further direction. And, at this point, I have none of my reference material ( building fence on a farm in Florida).

[KRIS FORD]

 

Yeah I wrote that. I used to show QM(A) listed under Artificer Branch, but I can't find any official document to support that.

 

I have to assume that the rules were interpreted and enforced locally. Certainly aviation personnel recruited during the war were not trained in the same manner as seamen. But a literal interpretation of the regulations is that Quartermaster, Aviation was a sub-set of Quartermaster, and that was Seaman Branch and a right-arm rate. But variation in a new organization like naval aviation, and in wartime, is to be expected.

 

Justin B.

 

Great work on those pages by the way! I've looked at them numerous times! Great to see the forefathers of the HT rate as Metalsmith, Shipfitter, and Molder! As well as Carpenter's Mates and Patternmakers.

[Justin B.]

Great work on those pages by the way! I've looked at them numerous times! Great to see the forefathers of the HT rate as Metalsmith, Shipfitter, and Molder! As well as Carpenter's Mates and Patternmakers.

Thank you, I am glad to do it and to hear you have enjoyed it. Wish I had time to do more!

 

Justin B.

[MastersMate]

The training manual from 1919 for the Quartermaster, aviation.. Page 466 has a good description of the duties of the rating..

 

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nnc1.cu55813623;view=1up;seq=8

[Justin B.]

Some WW1 aviation chiefs in a blimp hangar, a couple appear to be wearing the Aviation QM badge on the right arm. The date the site gives is 1917, but this may be incorrect because two are wearing war service chevrons authorized in September 1918. Note also the neckties and dark flannel shirts.

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-60000/NH-60874.html

 

[Sealion]

I'm late in responding to the post but I served as a Quartermaster in the Coast Guard and Navy.  As a Coast Guardsman, I had to pass both Quartermaster and Signalman schools at  USN Tracen Orlando to earn my rating.  Coast Guardsmen and Navy Women routinely graduated top in both classes.  I graduated top of both of my QM and SM classes.  There are only 4 ratings that were allowed the "right arm rating": Boatswain, Quartermaster, Gunner and Master at Arms, the original enlisted 4 ratings in the US Navy.  When the aviation variants appeared, Aviation Boatswain and Aviation Quartermaster also were allowed the "right arm" rating crow. I don't know of any Aviation Gunner or Aviation MAA that were created but there may have been.  My uncle was an Aviation Boatswains Mate and served during the Korean Conflict.  I have his dress Jumper with a right arm rating on it. Not long after Korea, the Navy shifted ALL rating crows to the left arm.  I guess all the newbies to the Navy felt offended by not having the honor.