917601 Posted May 31, 2018 Share #1 Posted May 31, 2018 For the Ordnance enthusiasts, a 120mm APFSDS range pick up from Germany....history, the US adapted the German "dart " kinetic round, and their 120mm gun to shoot it...then upgraded our M1 tanks from 105mm to 120mm German ammo and guns, most all of our 120mm ammo is not US designed, although we improved on the German technology. This one an earlier DM38 German design adapted and used by US forces. Most do not realize the 120mm case is a combustionable case, it is consumed during ignition and the only piece left and ejected is the small metal base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikie Posted May 31, 2018 Share #2 Posted May 31, 2018 Hi. I don't know much about ordinance, but have enjoyed your posts so far. I appreciate the little background info that you provide like you did here. I am always looking to learn! Regards, Mikie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted May 31, 2018 Here is my 120mm HEAT inert training round, complete, the silver portion is consumed during firing. The silver combustible case is a fiberglass epoxy replica I fabricated awhile back. Modern 120mm ordnance ( M1 Abrahms tank) is extremely hard to find, with HEAT ( High Explosive Anti-tank) projectiles the rarest, the " dart" rounds with petals most common ( pictured above) as they contain no explosives to be down loaded. The " real deal", a DU dart similar to the one pictured above ( that one is a steel training dart) is unknown to be in any private collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted May 31, 2018 Hi. I don't know much about ordinance, but have enjoyed your posts so far. I appreciate the little background info that you provide like you did here. I am always looking to learn! Regards, Mikie Thanks, that is why I am posting. I have been watching this forum for some time and realized it is in need of more Ordnance related items. In a matter of a few years, Ordnance has become the fastest growing collectible. Just a few short years ago, a WW2 dated Sherman round and case could be had for a hundred bucks, today's market is 350 bucks plus......be sure to check those old doors stops, lamps, and book ends your Dad left you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share #5 Posted May 31, 2018 One more pic, a 105mm HEAT round, pristine. It was a loading, unloading, drill round dated from 1976, Picked up from a long time collector ( 45 years) who was selling off his entire 45 year old collection. Most the " good" stuff never makes the auction houses or Internet, it is all sold off by word of mouth. An auctioneer told me Ordnance recycles every 25-30 years, once acquired, it stays in a collection till the owner dies off and the greedy, ignorant kids want the dollar. That is how I acquired many pieces, including the 16"/50 battleship round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted May 31, 2018 Share #6 Posted May 31, 2018 There are a few hard core ordnance collectors here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted May 31, 2018 Share #7 Posted May 31, 2018 Love the 120 stuff! I only have 1 105mm tank round...a training HEAT round.... Some of my other big stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted June 1, 2018 Pzjgr., nice pieces, thanks for posting. I noticed the German rounds, very impressive. I told myself a few years ago to stick with US pieces only or I would run out of room,.....well, I am almost out of room with just the US pieces! I think you can agree with me we have entered the last days of " affordable" Ordnance. Let's keep the pictures rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 1, 2018 Share #9 Posted June 1, 2018 Well, ordnance prices have been crazy for some time now, but there are always deals to be had...probably about, what, 12-15 years ago, when eBay was still a great place to buy and sell oirdnance, I put a complete 75mm M61 APC-T Sherman round on figuring to get maybe $150, and it went for over $700.... I try to stick to getting lucky, but I'll pay up if I have to...and I really want it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted June 1, 2018 Nice, very nice, however, you need a few M759 fuzes for those HEI and HEDP rounds to make them " correct". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 1, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 1, 2018 Ooooh, nice...yeah, my 30mm are just dummy projos painted up....its been my experience finding inert actual 30mm HEI or HEDP projectiles... Here is a 90mm I put together at a local show for less than $100, one vendor had the projectile, one had the case...voila... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted June 1, 2018 Keeping the eye candy rolling, a 105mm APFSDS loading/training round. One of my favorites, weighted correctly, the black projectile is plastic, and has Ft Knox on it....a piece of history as our armor school was moved to Ft Benning a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #13 Posted June 1, 2018 A few more, I like to find the original crates for storage and when I haul out the collection to airshows and events it makes for easier handling. A 105mm HEP is in the crate with the 105mm APFSDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted June 1, 2018 Crated up in original crates...interestingly, the hardest pieces to find are the black fibre shipping tubes the ordnance is packed in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #15 Posted June 1, 2018 A few modern day US M821 and M889 81mm's in original metal crate and tubes. The US still uses the British packaging method along side of our black fibre tubes... most do not know our current 81mm mortar, M254, is British made, designed, and in Gulf War 1 we ran out of US made mortars and used their's. We finally got Licence to make them. Note: the fins are not correct, they are for our earlier 81mm. If anyone has a few M24 fins for sale, let me know. Nice complete, pristine " original" set regardless. The fuzes are "unobtainable", till I ran into a retired Redleg who had a few spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 2, 2018 Share #16 Posted June 2, 2018 Wow, love having the original crates for rounds...I have some, but mainly German, so can't post here really... My 105 HEAT is a twin brother to your APFSDS trainer, also marked Ft Knox TASC.... Here is a haul of US stuff I picked up a couple of gunshows ago...I loved finding the DPICM bomblet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 2, 2018 Share #17 Posted June 2, 2018 Here is a 57mm recoiless round...had the case for a good while, could not find a projectile with a fuze...the fuzes seem to be exceedingly rare, since they were almost impossible to demil once loaded... I found this one in a local shop....the fuze body is correct, but it was never completed...probably as good as I am going to get.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 2, 2018 Share #18 Posted June 2, 2018 Some US grenades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share #19 Posted June 2, 2018 Here is a 57mm recoiless round...had the case for a good while, could not find a projectile with a fuze...the fuzes seem to be exceedingly rare, since they were almost impossible to demil once loaded... I found this one in a local shop....the fuze body is correct, but it was never completed...probably as good as I am going to get.... The fuzes I have been told are " unobtainable", I never did know the reason. I have one, an M503A1 PD fuze dated 5-54, which is in a 4-53 M306A1 projectile, and M30A1B1 1954 fired phosphate case. My brother picked it up from a Korean War vet at a Chicago gun show a few years back. I never did find out how the Vet obtained it, he walked up to the table and was asking $50 for it.....the good old days. I took a picture of it but unable to post it - says " file to big to upload"...which is happening quite a bit with pics I am trying to post on this forum. Edit, I did find an older picture of it, but not as detailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share #20 Posted June 2, 2018 ...I see your grenades and raise you three 155mm shells....left, a 155mm Long Tom M101 1944 dated projo with a 1944 T105 Concrete bunker buster fuze( M78 CP designation when the T105 was done with testing), an M483A1 cluster bomb ( cargo shell) with a cluster bomb munition, and a rarer M121 VX nerve agent shell. The M121A1 was assembled and used to test US demil procedures and equipment during the early 90's to comply with the chemical weapons treaty and ban we signed with Russia, which is why it is gold in color. From sources at Anniston, only about 250 were used to test our demil facilities and equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share #21 Posted June 2, 2018 A picture of our Chem weapon demil equipment, robots. We demilled millions of these, then destroyed the facilities by incineration for obvious reasons. As a footnote, we put in storage about 10 percent because Russia never completely destroyed their stocks...or so I was told. Our remaining stocks are stored some place in Kentucky.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 2, 2018 Share #22 Posted June 2, 2018 Don't make me pull out my 155mm or 5" 38cal.... The VX round, was that part of what was being destroyed at Johnson Atoll? If so we put a bid in to do the EPA required stack testing at the facility....I've got a single US 105, but I do have a complete German 105mm extended range special along with the original crate for it, and the German 105 SK C/32 illum round, which was a Kriegsmarine shipboard 105...(SK=Schiffs Kanone). Big stuff is so heavy and hard to move though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share #23 Posted June 2, 2018 More historic pics....folks back in 91 would have gone bat crazy knowing we were demilling these weapons in five locations across America....from Utah to Alabama to Kentucky....keep in mind, one ounce of liquid VX could wipe out NYC,.....each 155mm shell carried about 6.5 lbs. of liquid VX or GB...and it was formulated to be " persistent", in other words, not degraded by sunlight or rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share #24 Posted June 2, 2018 Don't make me pull out my 155mm or 5" 38cal.... The VX round, was that part of what was being destroyed at Johnson Atoll? If so we put a bid in to do the EPA required stack testing at the facility....I've got a single US 105, but I do have a complete German 105mm extended range special along with the original crate for it, and the German 105 SK C/32 illum round, which was a Kriegsmarine shipboard 105...(SK=Schiffs Kanone). Big stuff is so heavy and hard to move though! I know, but worth collecting for a future " museum". Some of our demil facilities were initially in Johnson, but we had so many millions of Chem rockets and shells it was decided to do them in place. Searching .mil news clips of the time reveals the extent of the operation...as for difficulty in moving (1500 lbs), well worth it for now, they are not making anymore...do I have to say the wife hates it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted June 2, 2018 Share #25 Posted June 2, 2018 Everything I have seen points to the almost impossibility to safely demil once loaded.... This is a thread I started at BOCN that I think you jumped in on at the end...but fuzes are discussed in it... http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/97845-Completed-57mm-Recoilless-Rifle-Round The fuzes I have been told are " unobtainable", I never did know the reason. I have one, an M503A1 PD fuze dated 5-54, which is in a 4-53 M306A1 projectile, and M30A1B1 1954 fired phosphate case. My brother picked it up from a Korean War vet at a Chicago gun show a few years back. I never did find out how the Vet obtained it, he walked up to the table and was asking $50 for it.....the good old days. I took a picture of it but unable to post it - says " file to big to upload"...which is happening quite a bit with pics I am trying to post on this forum. Edit, I did find an older picture of it, but not as detailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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