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Camo ACH Authentication


BSRmilitaria
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BSRmilitaria

Hi guys,

 

I have recently really taken to camouflage ACH helmets and are looking for thoughts on authenticating their camos. I have spoken to several veterans, all serving in Afghanistan that confirmed helmets were often customized - but I have also seen some airsofters trying to make a quick buck and flip them.

 

Any opinions on the matter would be very much appreciated!

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VolunteerArmoury

Something to keep in mind, I know several fellow veterans that are into air soft stuff. I also know a couple in particular that replicate their own helmets as well as buddies pots & actually sell them. Not sure where they sell them or under what name or store though or if theyve continued doing such. Ironically one was what many would call a POG but wore all the tacticool or geardo stuff & had a decked out pot & plate carriers but was never out of the wire but his stuff was intentionally beat to crap. Another I know was a hard charging guy that did far more than I did. Even us veterans can make up a story to beef something up. Provenance straight from one of us that are vets still doesnt always make it true. There are many of us watching forums & Ebay & such & some dont have limits to making a buck. Personally my pot from OIF & OND was a basic ACH with the only unusual thing being a couple of small carabiners through a couple cover slits to help my googles on but my pot & IBA will be one of the last possessions I have (they followed me after being MEDEVACed). An unfortunate ironic thing about these invaluable forums is that we sometimes accidentally facilitate these replications by saying what to look for thus potentially educating the replicators at the same time as we educate ourselves. Catch 22.

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trenchfoot

I wouldn't worry about the one you showed being used for airsoft. There is no point of an airsofter putting an NVG mount on their helmet. They often put the NVG bracket, but never the mount. Since the mount is painted in the same camo, I'd say this one is fine. Also, the majority of airsoft players wear plastic copies of kevlar helmets, and rarely real ones because of how "heavy" they are...

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It depends on what you want - This one looks like a good representation, but I doubt how much it was out in the field - the screws were not with the helmet when it was painted - there's no crap/debris in the Velcro, nor any scratches/dings/etc to the paint. Again, good representation, but probably not used very much.

 

Kyle

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Cap Camouflage Pattern I

I wouldn't worry about the one you showed being used for airsoft. There is no point of an airsofter putting an NVG mount on their helmet. They often put the NVG bracket, but never the mount. Since the mount is painted in the same camo, I'd say this one is fine. Also, the majority of airsoft players wear plastic copies of kevlar helmets, and rarely real ones because of how "heavy" they are...

I disagree, while most airsofters wear Chinese copies, there are still many airsofters that spend thousands to get originals to play with.

 

The lack of any wear on this makes me doubtful, I'd think it would get more dinged up even playing air soft. But I don't know.

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trenchfoot

I disagree, while most airsofters wear Chinese copies, there are still many airsofters that spend thousands to get originals to play with.

 

The lack of any wear on this makes me doubtful, I'd think it would get more dinged up even playing air soft. But I don't know.

I know some wear real ones, but not a whole lot. I agree that you would see some small circular dings from BB's that would chip the paint. At the very least, the paint is real and the helmet wasn't fielded at all.

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BSRmilitaria

Something to keep in mind, I know several fellow veterans that are into air soft stuff. I also know a couple in particular that replicate their own helmets as well as buddies pots & actually sell them. Not sure where they sell them or under what name or store though or if theyve continued doing such. Ironically one was what many would call a POG but wore all the tacticool or geardo stuff & had a decked out pot & plate carriers but was never out of the wire but his stuff was intentionally beat to crap. Another I know was a hard charging guy that did far more than I did. Even us veterans can make up a story to beef something up. Provenance straight from one of us that are vets still doesnt always make it true. There are many of us watching forums & Ebay & such & some dont have limits to making a buck. Personally my pot from OIF & OND was a basic ACH with the only unusual thing being a couple of small carabiners through a couple cover slits to help my googles on but my pot & IBA will be one of the last possessions I have (they followed me after being MEDEVACed). An unfortunate ironic thing about these invaluable forums is that we sometimes accidentally facilitate these replications by saying what to look for thus potentially educating the replicators at the same time as we educate ourselves. Catch 22.

 

 

You make a good point, and typically the ACH helmets I keep in my personal collection all have period photos of them being used. It is nice to hear about your experience though! As for educating replicators, I guess thats the game we play when using these forums unfortunately.

 

Thanks for the reply!

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VolunteerArmoury

How much of an impact do the little balls make? I thought they were plastic so figured wouldnt have much of a mark. Most of the people I know who do the airsoft seem to wear the fakes until they can get real ones. A side not while training ROTC cadets at Ft. Lewis one year another NCO with us got a bunch of airsoft plastic ACH helmets for us to wear so we didnt have to wear our pots. We had to change the chinstraps but other than hay we had regular old covers & our reflective helmet band being cadre. Kinda made me think of German parade helmets.

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BSRmilitaria

I wouldn't worry about the one you showed being used for airsoft. There is no point of an airsofter putting an NVG mount on their helmet. They often put the NVG bracket, but never the mount. Since the mount is painted in the same camo, I'd say this one is fine. Also, the majority of airsoft players wear plastic copies of kevlar helmets, and rarely real ones because of how "heavy" they are...

 

 

I understand where you are coming from and agree that most airsofters tend to wear cheaper plastic helmets compared to the real kevlar - however locally I have noted a savy airsofter painting his helmets and flipping them to other people in the hobby. I cant help but think one day they may be passed as authentic "combat used" pieces.

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BSRmilitaria

How much of an impact do the little balls make? I thought they were plastic so figured wouldnt have much of a mark. Most of the people I know who do the airsoft seem to wear the fakes until they can get real ones. A side not while training ROTC cadets at Ft. Lewis one year another NCO with us got a bunch of airsoft plastic ACH helmets for us to wear so we didnt have to wear our pots. We had to change the chinstraps but other than hay we had regular old covers & our reflective helmet band being cadre. Kinda made me think of German parade helmets.

 

The people that I know who partake in airsoft are all very hard core in the hobby. I dont think the plastic balls are what they worry about, but essentially who can look the coolest. With authentic gear being relatively cheap, I know its a preferred option.

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marentius

Just my 2cents from the other side of the ocean .Here in Italy air soft is quite popular,ranging from people wearing whatever they have at hand,be it military or not,to those groups that strictly wear only official issues items (clothing helmets etcetc)paying a lot of bucks for those things.There are already here in Italy people selling original MICHs perfectly camouflaged after careful study of original pictures.Just some wear and in the end you have an "original been there done that" camo MICH.

As a collector I know it is not easy to spot repros from original ones,since they move a lot of money around and as it has been already written the direct provenance from a veteran is not always a guarantee.

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Mercenary25

You guys who underestimated airsoft, have no idea about airsoft and the threat they presented to the OEF/OIF collectors.

 

For fact, they do everything they can to obtain REAL stuff including actual ballistic helmets and plates, and real NVG mounts. Why wouldnt they use real mounts? They even would wear flotation vests for their NSW impression and they are nowhere near water. They would have SPIE or rappelling harness when they dont have helicopters. They would wear ultra rare gear that is easily worth $800. They would paint ACH and it can be very difficult to tell between its airsofter or real operator used helmets. They even use original operator used helmets but swapped out salty pads and suspensions to new ones so they could wear it.

 

So I understand the OPs concern very well.

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Mercenary25

To answer OPs question about the helmet, we need photos of inside the helmet but overall, it looks freshly painted and Velcro freshly applied. Not enough scratches/wears on top of dome and edges. NVG mount need to have many paint chipping from putting on/taking off arm.

 

In conclusion, it could be airsofter customized or faked for collectors. The very fat chance is it was a real operators extra helmet that was used once or twice then sat in duffel bag for entire time, but youd need provenance to prove it.

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if you can get some shots of the interior, that would help to assess it as well. As for Airsofters, they prefer to look like who they're playing. This includes the shrouds and the mounts on the helmets. Some of these guys so so far as to to buy high end NVG equipment.

 

The helmet's exterior looks like its been out in the sun and faded. It doesn't look as if its been scratched, bumped or set down on a lot of stuff, but that doesn't always indicate lack of use. The velcro being clear/clean of dust/sand/paint, doesn't bother me much on this lid. Other lids, it might be an issue, but this one strikes me as being ok. The screws don't match the paint, but in all honesty that doesn't really matter. Chinstraps get replaced just the same way the pads do. Sometimes they'll take the old screws and re-use them, others they're forced to change them (not all chinstraps are compatible with all screws/setups). I'll post some of my provenanced lids below with a bit about them so you can get an idea of the gambit these run.

 

 

 

This first helmet belonged to a USAF JTAC. I actually lucked in to this guys chief who verified not only that this lid belonged to the guy, but also that he helped him paint it. He then pointed me in his direction, and I was able to verify with the original owner that it was indeed his. He wore this in Iraq and later deployments as well.

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The fourth lid was worn by a Special Forces soldier all over the world on various deployments. He painted it in anticipation of an upcoming deployment, but was then issued a new lid. He had also replaced the pads and chinstrap. While this looks clean/fresh, its been all around the world

 

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BSRmilitaria

I am glad to see other people share the concern. Regarding my helmet, this is one I believe to be original but unused. The reasons I believe it to be original are:

 

Velcro mounts for counter weight on back which are typically overlooked - Upgraded liner pads and Ops Core suspension - extra NVG arm.

 

If this was a post war put together piece someone went through alot of trouble and expense to create it, and then not wear the piece.

 

Thanks all for the replies!

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Mercenary25

What do you mean, post war? There is no post war yet!

 

The chin straps are brand new and pads are very clean if not brand new too. Id pass.

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VolunteerArmoury

What do you mean, post war? There is no post war yet!

 

The chin straps are brand new and pads are very clean if not brand new too. Id pass.

I consider there being a post war period or one could say interwar. My ASUs & last ACUs (I believe the last style of ACUs were adopted after 2011 but may be wrong on that) I wore were post Iraq war since OIF ended in 2010 & OND had ended on 18 Dec 2011 ending that war & the next Iraq engagement, Op Inherent Resolve hadnt began yet before I was retired in Jan 14.
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VolunteerArmoury

You guys who underestimated airsoft, have no idea about airsoft and the threat they presented to the OEF/OIF collectors.

 

For fact, they do everything they can to obtain REAL stuff including actual ballistic helmets and plates, and real NVG mounts. Why wouldnt they use real mounts? They even would wear flotation vests for their NSW impression and they are nowhere near water. They would have SPIE or rappelling harness when they dont have helicopters. They would wear ultra rare gear that is easily worth $800. They would paint ACH and it can be very difficult to tell between its airsofter or real operator used helmets. They even use original operator used helmets but swapped out salty pads and suspensions to new ones so they could wear it.

 

So I understand the OPs concern very well.

I fully agree with you. Theres a fellow I knew who replicated his own combat helmet with other pots even weathering them to make money off them. Remember not all of us vets are honest.
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Sorry I am kind of late getting back to this, the big problem I see is you have a odd combination. Early pads with a late chin strap, a chin strap that is used mostly by folks on jump status with a non jumpable mount. True the H nape is also used by people using heavy NVG's like 15 and ENVG but that is not the mount setup for either of them so why have a H nape? Combined with the overall clean look of everything I think this was just put together for resale.

 

On a side note the gold Norotos mounts are totally junk, even most conventional forces don't use them anymore. The bolt used to mount them sticks out to far inside the helmet and has been know to seriously injury the user. As a result you can usually find them even cheaper then the fake mounts. Like $2-$5 cheap.

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VolunteerArmoury

Sorry I am kind of late getting back to this, the big problem I see is you have a odd combination. Early pads with a late chin strap, a chin strap that is used mostly by folks on jump status with a non jumpable mount. True the H nape is also used by people using heavy NVG's like 15 and ENVG but that is not the mount setup for either of them so why have a H nape? Combined with the overall clean look of everything I think this was just put together for resale.

 

On a side note the gold Norotos mounts are totally junk, even most conventional forces don't use them anymore. The bolt used to mount them sticks out to far inside the helmet and has been know to seriously injury the user. As a result you can usually find them even cheaper then the fake mounts. Like $2-$5 cheap.

I dont take any faith in either but just a caveat is that I searched out the earlier pass for I preferred them to the later ones but in the same I also wore a K-pot later than most people.

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BSRmilitaria

What do you mean, post war? There is no post war yet!

 

The chin straps are brand new and pads are very clean if not brand new too. Id pass.

 

Ha! Good point. By post war I was meaning altered after its issued life or for non combat purposes. Also I believe ACH helmets are being fazed out and replaced with the ECH.

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