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OK, the more I read the confuseder I gets!

Did the Army use camo helmet covers or are all WWII covers USMC?
What are the basic details on the wartime patterns?
If I've missed a thread that gives me good detail, feel free to point me there!

THANKS

Pics posted of what started my quest.....

 

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Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

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This is a Marine Cover.

 

Army had an experimental pattern but different construction

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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post-107763-0-43151700-1525296864.jpg

 

As referenced by Doyler,

The style cover you posted was used by the Marine Corps in WWII

The Army experimented with a cover of significantly more complex design and construction. These covers in conjunction with uniforms of the same patterns were attributed with friendly fire incidents due to confusion between fellow U.S. soldiers wearing these uniforms and the camouflage used by the Germans.

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This is a reproduction cover to my eyes.

Pictures arent the greatest.

Ok, no argument, I can't claim to know. What do you need to see? What attributes am I looking for? It is umarked, it is all cotton, it doesn't have the 'pac man' style designs found in repops. So help me with details.

Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

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Folks get preoccupied with the beleaguered pac man. Both repops and originals have those, and while there are differences, there are much more obvious tells - that dont require you learn those subleties.

 

Here is what I think is wrong:

 

1) Colors on the jungle side are wrong. But that can be camera settings

2) Lack of background color breaks in the camo pattern in the right areas

3) Closed / ladder stitching on the sand side edge can be ok on some post-WWII covers, but straight stitching on the center seam is not. Your cover appears to have double straight stitch on the sand side, versus rope / chain stitching. The picture is fuzzy, but thats what I see.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, no argument, I can't claim to know. What do you need to see? What attributes am I looking for? It is umarked, it is all cotton, it doesn't have the 'pac man' style designs found in repops. So help me with details.

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Here is what I think is wrong:

1) Colors... But that can be camera settings

2) Lack of background color breaks in the camo pattern in the right areas

3) Closed / ladder stitching on the sand side edge can be ok on some post-WWII covers, but straight stitching on the center seam is not. Your cover appears to have double straight stitch on the sand side, versus rope / chain stitching. The picture is fuzzy, but thats what I see.

 

Thanks! Can't do much with the color reply 1, may be the same with 2? The photos of the stitching may not be high art, but I think they are clear, will repost here. So the double row is incorrect, can you post a pic of what it should look like? Appreciate the time!

 

 

 

 

post-93-0-64828100-1525304337.jpg

post-93-0-02434100-1525304346_thumb.jpg

Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

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Sorry Andrew - need to see center seam on sand / brown side.

 

 

Here is what I think is wrong:

1) Colors... But that can be camera settings

2) Lack of background color breaks in the camo pattern in the right areas

3) Closed / ladder stitching on the sand side edge can be ok on some post-WWII covers, but straight stitching on the center seam is not. Your cover appears to have double straight stitch on the sand side, versus rope / chain stitching. The picture is fuzzy, but thats what I see.

 

Thanks! Can't do much with the color reply 1, may be the same with 2? The photos of the stitching may not be high art, but I think they are clear, will repost here. So the double row is incorrect, can you post a pic of what it should look like? Appreciate the time!

 

 

 

 

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Inside(center) double chain stitch of a WW2 pattern cover

 

post-342-0-78935400-1525339584_thumb.jpg

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Couple more pics....
Is it known how many companies produced these in WWII?

Back to initial post, how many wartime patterns are there and what are the major distinctions between them?

 

post-93-0-11297300-1525355578_thumb.jpg

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Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

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Better pics confirmed what I thought I saw - duplicate straight stitch on sand side.

 

You have a reproduction cover, worth about $10-$15 for reenactor or display.

 

In terms of variations by era, etc, there are countless topics already on USMF discussing this.

 

Simple search will get you there.

 

Cheers.

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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd also like to get a better understanding of WWII and Post War covers as my current knowledge in that are is lacking. Does anyone have suggestions on some good resources (either threads or books) to read through to get a better understanding of covers produced and used during WWII and KW and what to look for to spot the real covers from the fake/reproduced covers?

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Better pics confirmed what I thought I saw - duplicate straight stitch on sand side.

 

You have a reproduction cover, worth about $10-$15 for reenactor or display.

 

In terms of variations by era, etc, there are countless topics already on USMF discussing this.

 

Simple search will get you there.

 

Cheers.

 

The searches do not give concise details and from what I found I have no reason to doubt the one I found. That said, can you please post a pic of what the stitching should look like?

Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

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donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

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Andrew - Ron posted a correct WWII pattern sand center seam above. His cover has an EGA stamp applied for Korea.

 

If you look closely at the stitching, youll see the machine applied whats called a chain stitch. This is an eccentric stitch where a loop is passed through one side of the fabric, and uniformly picks up the following loop repeatedly. The result is a single straight stitch on one side, and a repeating series of short inter-locking 2-ply loops on the opposite side. The visual result looks like a chain (or braid) on one side, and a conventional single straight stitch on tother. If you look at the following illustration, the jungle / green side is the top, and the sand / brown side is the bottom. On an original cover, there will be two parallel rows of straight stitches on the green side; and, two corresponding parallel chain stitches on the brown side.

 

Your cover has messily-applied single stitch on both sides, with one doubled.

 

Again, there is a bunch wrong with your cover. Camo pattern application, color, and some specific shapes are starters.

 

 

 

The searches do not give concise details and from what I found I have no reason to doubt the one I found. That said, can you please post a pic of what the stitching should look like?

post-94991-0-47184800-1525358836_thumb.jpeg

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Now there is a detail that makes sense!

So, any camo covers with the straight machine stitching like mine are trash. Off to the dustbin it goes and if I find myself in a position to pay for one of this covers I'll know!
Still a bit surprised on this one, $30 in an antique shop on a 50's era helmet set, seemed like a good gamble!

Appreciate all the time spenf folks!

Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

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For sure worth the $30 gamble.

 

To be clear, straight stitching on the green side is correct.

 

Not on the brown side.

 

I have only seen that on reproductions.

 

Now there is a detail that makes sense!

So, any camo covers with the straight machine stitching like mine are trash. Off to the dustbin it goes and if I find myself in a position to pay for one of this covers I'll know!

Still a bit surprised on this one, $30 in an antique shop on a 50's era helmet set, seemed like a good gamble!

Appreciate all the time spenf folks!

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For sure worth the $30 gamble.

To be clear, straight stitching on the green side is correct.

Not on the brown side.

I have only seen that on reproductions.

 

I'm a visual learner and this last bit was what I needed! Made me think about another helmet I had tucked away and I dug it out. Sure enough, more 'colors' in the camo and the brown side of the stitching is chain stitched! Pics attached.

As an aside, my wife is an excellent seamstress and I showed her the different covers. She took one look at the repop cover before I noted anything and said "Look at this lousy stitching. Can't believe they let this leave the factory." Guess ya gotta have the eye! Oh, by the way, she also said, "I've got old cotton thread and my machine will chain stitch, want me to fix this one?" I declined and it went in the trash. :mellow:

 

post-93-0-80926700-1525470080.jpg

post-93-0-44050500-1525470196.jpg

Wartime Collectables Military Antiques
Andrew H. Lipps
email wartime@wartimecollectables.com
On the web at http://www.wartimecollectables.com

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

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