WWII D.S.C. ... Is it correct?

[Orion27]

"Someone without a clue ends up with the best part"...

 

I guess that is me? What, pray tell, led you to that conclusion? I don't like AT ALL the innuendo behind your comment. I've been collecting for 25 years. I have a Master's Degree in Military History. Is it because I've posted very infrequently on this forum? Surely you don't think that the only smart people in the hobby are regular posters do you. Your comment actually reconfirms why I've been so reticent to post much.

 

I'll only state what I've already stated. It was sold on ebay. I hit the buy button 5 minutes after it was listed. I was simply doing my regular search. I know enough (despite being "clueless") to recognize a great piece (and a great price) when I see it. That is the entirety of my end of the story.

 

Choose not to believe it if you want.

[Allan H.]

Art,

 

You are on solid ground here and I am sure that the comments above weren't aimed at you. I feel that you are quite lucky to have found the medal and to have purchased it. I also believe that you "know your stuff" when it comes to collecting and preserving the history of the soldiers whose effects you have managed to acquire.

 

For my part, I felt that I bought the group at a reasonable price (not a steal by any means) and I COULD have sold the group for more than I did. the situation for me is that I sold the De Genero group to a person whom I thought was going to be someone who would cherish and care for the group for many years to come. Unfortunately, that period of time was significantly less than I would have expected. I also believe that if you give your word of honor, then that ought to mean something. Apparently it doesn't with everyone.

 

Allan

[Orion27]

Thanks Allan, and I appreciate your position too, I really do.

[manayunkman]

Orion you are not the one without a clue.

 

The ebay seller is the one without a clue.

 

How does this ebay seller end up with a 3,000 medal that sells for 500.00?

 

How does the medal go from someone who has a clue (the collector who got it from Allen) to being pissed away for 500.00 by someone who has no clue?

 

Did they get it at a yard sale for 5.00? To me that's what this sounds like.

[scottplen]

Lets get back to This great cross! Do you have any research on it? It will be great to get a picture of him!

[Dave]

Orion you are not the one without a clue.

 

The ebay seller is the one without a clue.

 

How does this ebay seller end up with a 3,000 medal that sells for 500.00?

 

How does the medal go from someone who has a clue (the collector who got it from Allen) to being pissed away for 500.00 by someone who has no clue?

 

Did they get it at a yard sale for 5.00? To me that's what this sounds like.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but for what it's worth, a 1950s award DSC isn't worth anywhere near $3000. I watched a similar DSC sit on a seller's table at a recent show with a $750 price tag and he took it home when the show closed up.

 

That said...I wouldn't read too much into what the seller sold the medal for. He may have had it pulled once or twice by eBay and then decided to do a low-ball BIN just to get it sold. Maybe he had a bad tax bill...maybe a sick kid...and a quick sale at $500 was worth losing some money rather than having it fester for weeks or months at $1000.

 

Let's not tar and feather the seller without knowing the backstory (and no, I don't know who the seller was, or who bought it from Allan).

[manayunkman]

Thanks Dave for clearing that up for me.

 

I thought it was a WW2 and being to a fighter pilot and part of a group...$

 

It makes sense now why the cross is loose.

[Orion27]

It is a tremendous story.

 

July 14, 1943. Lt. DeGenaro was flying a P-47 escorting bombers to Europe. He was shot up by Luftwaffe pilot "Wutz" Galland (55 aerial victories) over the Somme Estuary North-West of Hesdin. He was wounded in the hands, ankles and right knee. He then shot down two German planes and damaged a third before heading for the English Channel. He was flying with his elbows by this point. He was going to crash land but feared hitting a English Village so he ditched in the Channel near a fishing boat (the "Little Old Lady") which promptly picked him up. Galland was killed 3 days later in another fight with P-47s. The source I am quoting from says that he was awarded the DSC in hospital.

 

As someone said in an earlier post, it seems almost a MOH citation. https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/30734

 

No, I don't have a picture. Would love to find one.

 

The fact that it is a numbered DSC...what does that say? Could it be the one he was given in the hospital and in the post-war era had it named?

[MattS]

"Someone without a clue ends up with the best part"...

 

I guess that is me? What, pray tell, led you to that conclusion? I don't like AT ALL the innuendo behind your comment. I've been collecting for 25 years. I have a Master's Degree in Military History. Is it because I've posted very infrequently on this forum? Surely you don't think that the only smart people in the hobby are regular posters do you. Your comment actually reconfirms why I've been so reticent to post much.

 

I'll only state what I've already stated. It was sold on ebay. I hit the buy button 5 minutes after it was listed. I was simply doing my regular search. I know enough (despite being "clueless") to recognize a great piece (and a great price) when I see it. That is the entirety of my end of the story.

 

Choose not to believe it if you want.

 

Orion27, you seem really quick to take offense. Neither my comments or any else's were aimed at, or even remotely directed towards you. You simply brought to our collective attention the fact that a grouping had been split up after numerous promises to NOT split it up (either by a member here or the family), and we are trying to reason why that happened. We are not out to shoot the messenger here, so please re-read the comments here from our perspective as fellow historians trying to resolve this injustice.

[Orion27]

Here is the number from the original 2011 post.

[Orion27]

Here it is on my back porch.

[Orion27]

Here is an updated pic of the naming (also on my back porch). April 2018.

[Orion27]

Sorry if I came across as defensive. I guess I know the importance of these things and I didn't want peers thinking that I had done anything unethical. I also don't think people should be so quick to throw the seller under the bus. I'm not sure that is fair without a full story. I AM perplexed about the value. I've seen a wide range between this thread, private messages, and earlier threads about the group. I seen everything from ... I paid what its worth to, its worth a LOT more. Whatever, I'm happy. Someday I might try get up to his grave site and get a picture with his DSC. I would also really like to find a picture of him in uniform.

[Orion27]

Here is a pic of Wutz Galland who shot up DeGenaro's P-47 on July 14th, 1943 (Bastille Day!) over France. Galland died on the 17th.

[Orion27]

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallandw.html

 

 

Galland's victories ... DeGenaro was #49.

[Orion27]

I have always collected British medals so I am interested to find out if any of the crew of the "Little Old Lady" earned anything for saving him. Maybe a George Medal or a Sea Gallantry Medal. Have to check into it.

[scottplen]

Very nice !

[Austin_Militaria]

My response would be "not bloody likely" since the medal and Ike jacket were sold together by the family in the first place. As I stated earlier, the forum member who got the group from me was active on the forum as recently as last night, so this wouldn't be a case of the forum member not being in a position to ensure that the group was taken care of properly. He sent me a message within the last year to tell me how much he appreciated me selling the group to him and how it would never leave his possession, so something obviously changed.

 

I'd like for him to at least have the decency to contact me to let me know why his word means NOTHING.

 

Allan

 

Obviously it will someday leave his possession unless he was going to be buried with it. It comes down to being his property, you sold it, he can do what he wants with it. You are no longer the caretaker, so in my opinion you no longer have a voice in the matter. Sorry he lied to you, that seems to be the nature of this business to get what you want. When I was collecting at 14 years old I had a ton of people lie to me to get what I had. They did not seem to care, comes down to just plain greed.

 

Everyone always complains that groups are split up and that history is being destroyed.

 

What is the harm with multiple collectors having items from one individual?

[KASTAUFFER]

It is a tremendous story.

 

July 14, 1943. Lt. DeGenaro was flying a P-47 escorting bombers to Europe. He was shot up by Luftwaffe pilot "Wutz" Galland (55 aerial victories) over the Somme Estuary North-West of Hesdin. He was wounded in the hands, ankles and right knee. He then shot down two German planes and damaged a third before heading for the English Channel. He was flying with his elbows by this point. He was going to crash land but feared hitting a English Village so he ditched in the Channel near a fishing boat (the "Little Old Lady") which promptly picked him up. Galland was killed 3 days later in another fight with P-47s. The source I am quoting from says that he was awarded the DSC in hospital.

 

As someone said in an earlier post, it seems almost a MOH citation. https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/30734

 

No, I don't have a picture. Would love to find one.

 

The fact that it is a numbered DSC...what does that say? Could it be the one he was given in the hospital and in the post-war era had it named?

Generally during the 1940s and 50s officially engraved medals were engraved at the time of issue. I have never seen a case where a World War II veteran sent his WWII issued medal back to the Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot to be engraved and sent back. It is not unusual to see a numbered medal still being issued during the 1950s.

 

In the 1960s they did issue medals with the little card in the box stating that you could send your medal in to be engraved. They didn't do that in the 40s and 50s.

 

In my opinion this is probably a reissued medal from the 50s. He probably had an unnamed one he was awarded during the war.

 

Kurt

[MattS]

 

What is the harm with multiple collectors having items from one individual?

 

I can see your perspective, which appears to be from a dealer's point of view. With a large amount of items, or concerning one famous individual, that's acceptable I think. Several museums and collectors have an item or uniform from Patton or Eisenhower. But with one Ike jacket sporting the DSC ribbon and the matching DSC in the case, I personally would prefer to see those 2 items stay together. Just my opinion.

[scottplen]

It is a tremendous story.

 

July 14, 1943. Lt. DeGenaro was flying a P-47 escorting bombers to Europe. He was shot up by Luftwaffe pilot "Wutz" Galland (55 aerial victories) over the Somme Estuary North-West of Hesdin. He was wounded in the hands, ankles and right knee. He then shot down two German planes and damaged a third before heading for the English Channel. He was flying with his elbows by this point. He was going to crash land but feared hitting a English Village so he ditched in the Channel near a fishing boat (the "Little Old Lady") which promptly picked him up. Galland was killed 3 days later in another fight with P-47s. The source I am quoting from says that he was awarded the DSC in hospital.

 

As someone said in an earlier post, it seems almost a MOH citation. https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/30734

 

No, I don't have a picture. Would love to find one.

 

The fact that it is a numbered DSC...what does that say? Could it be the one he was given in the hospital and in the post-war era had it named?

I will see if I can find a photo on ancestry?

[manayunkman]

Talk about breaking up groups.

 

I just got back from a sale of an old collection.

 

The husband passed away and his widow and estate sale co divided everything up in categories.

 

There was a huge pile of papers, large sellection of medals, uniforms, insignia, patches, etc.

 

It didn't take long to figure they had broken up all his groupings without knowing it.

[Orion27]

Thanks for looking for a picture scottplen!

 

Wutz Galland, the pilot that shot him down, was a recipient of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross.

 

He was the younger brother of Lt. General Adolf Galland, second recipient of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. He had 104 Aerial victories (all before November 1941, when he advanced in rank so as no longer to be able to fly combat missions).

[Orion27]

Picture of the 82nd Fighter Squadron of the 78th Fighter Group's Scoreboard. This was DeGenaro's unit. If this picture is from after July 14, 1943 then one plane in each category would be attributed to DeGenaro from his DSC action.

[scottplen]

Nothing on Ancestry I will keep check other resources!