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Remington Model 1903A4 Sniper Rifle


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doyler, yours is made by Libbey Owens-ford glass Co. You can tell by the white border around the serial number. Leupold/Stevens had no border around the serial number. Only these two companies made the M84 scopes. Leupold/Stevens made very few of them. Nice 1903A4!

 

Sal

 

 

Thanks Sal

 

Great info

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Another

 

Last one.

Sub-contractor stamps. All 1903A4 had a minimum 5 stamps Under five it's a arsenal re-issued 1903A3 stock. Mine below has six. One is very hard to see. .

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When my 1903A4 went through the arsenal for re-use in the Korean War all metal parts were parkerizied. I was lucky to have a WW2 stock which has a great chance of being original to this rifle with FJA Cartouche in a square along with 6 sub-contractors stamps and 7/16" circle P. No K stamp in the cut out (above) which would indicate replaced an refurbished WWII stock. I thought I had only five sub-contrator stamps but looking really hard last night I found one more. Very hard to see but there.

 

Sal

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Wow, that sure close.Go ahead a post some photos if you like. Love to see it.

 

This is mine. It's neat it's so close to yours at about 400 off.

 

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This is mine. It's neat it's so close to yours at about 400 off.

 

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Yours still has the bluing mine went through a RIA in 1951 and had the stock freshened up and all the metal parts parkerizied. I'm very lucky that the stock was not totally sanded down. They still left most of the cartouches (FJA) in place. Towards the rear of the stock is: RIA/EB (Elmer Bjerke). I like yours, nice looking 1903A4. My serial number is: 3418675 Which scope do you have? Weaver 330C?

 

Sal

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Yours still has the bluing mine went through a RIA in 1951 and had the stock freshened up and all the metal parts parkerizied. I'm very lucky that the stock was not totally sanded down. They still left most of the cartouches (FJA) in place. Towards the rear of the stock is: RIA/EB (Elmer Bjerke). I like yours, nice looking 1903A4. My serial number is: 3418675 Which scope do you have? Weaver 330C?

 

Sal

 

 

It's a M73B1. This rifle is sort of interesting. It's an all original rifle, but I collect the 1903A1 USMC Unertl snipers, and this A4 has a few similar traits that you see that the Marines did on the USMC Unertls. It might be a coincidence but I suspect this might have been one of the ones acquired by the Marines for training.

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The Unertl, looks like a 1903 converted to a sniper rifle with the front sights still on. I found a pic of one. very interesting weapon.

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The Unertl, looks like a 1903 converted to a sniper rifle with the front sights still on. I found a pic of one. very interesting weapon.

 

 

I actually took that picture. lol That is Tim Plowman's rifle. Most of the rifles online aren't real, but that one is.

 

Yeah they were a National Match Marine team rifle, or a Marine rebarelled National Match rifle called a Special Target Rifle that the Marines blued the bolt and then mounted the 8X Unertl scope.

 

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Steve, as always great looking weapons. Thanks OP for sharing your post.

 

Backing up a bit here is another Leupold Stevens and Ford Libby Scope .. I have another leopold somewhere in a box but cannot find it right now...

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Great pics. .So the Marines used the 1903A1 USMC Unertl sniper in WWII? When did they switch to the 1903A4? To be honest I never heard of a 1903A1 until now!! LOL

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Great pics. .So the Marines used the 1903A1 USMC Unertl sniper in WWII? When did they switch to the 1903A4? To be honest I never heard of a 1903A1 until now!! LOL

 

 

Yeah the Marines started to mount the Unertl scopes on the team rifles in Jan 1943. The first ones reached the Pacific probably around May 1943. And the islands of Bougainville and Tarawa were the first islands they were used in combat in late 1943.

 

Before that, the Marines had fielded some of the WWI style Winchester A5 snipers. Some of these were used for training pre WWII, and about 20 were used on Guadalcanal. The Marine Raiders also acquired about 40 of them and used them on Bougainville.

 

In late 1943, the Marine Raiders report said the M1 Rifle was more effective than a scoped 1903 in the jungle. So the Unertl contract was basically cancelled bc of this report. It's interesting to note the Raiders probably didn't have the Unertl rifles in the report. But were talking about the 40 A5's they had.

 

There were also field reports that the Army A4 was a better rifle. But the field reports were again probably comparing the Winchester A5 snipers compared to the A4. Not the Unertl compared to the A4.

 

There was a lot of confusion between the A5 sniper and the Unertl sniper in WWII. As the Marines only called both rifles, 1903 sniper. Or 1903 with telescopic sight. So many A5 reports helped to condemn the Unertl. As the Marines thought the reports were on the new Unertl.

 

So the Marines actually decided to switch to the A4, because of these reports. But it just didn't never seemed to happen. The Marines decided shortly after the switch to the A4, to cancel the whole Sniper program in Feb 1944 before the switch really happened.

 

The Marines had ruled snipers were not needed in jungle warfare.

 

The Marines did acquire some A4's. Not only in the Pacific but stateside for training. They didn't acquire that many though.

 

The Marines even though they cancelled the Unertl contract in Feb 1944, the ones in the field were still used to great effect on Saipan and Okinawa. And it basically saved the rifles from just being discarded.

 

The Unertl rifle was the main sniper rifle till Nov 1950 when the Marines replaced it with the Army M1C Garand sniper. But shortages of the Army M1C caused the 1903A1 Unertl to still be used till the end of Korea.

 

Since they were a National MAtch rifle before the conversion, these rifles were very accurate, and putting a 8X scope on them, they were a very effective sniper rifle to a 1000 yards. And some kills have been confirmed at over a 1000 yards with them.

 

They were a true built sniper rifle, unlike the Army A4. Which was just a A3 with a scope.

 

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Get info! Below I'm posting some important info on how to tell if you have a real 1903A4 or a put together.

 

1. On the barrel behind the front sight will be a date and the manufacturers mark (RA). The dates will run from !-43 to 1-44.
2. The serial number on the receiver will fall into one of three well defined groups. The serial number should correlate with the barrel date (i.e. low serial numbers on early dates). An excellent list of serial numbers and barrel dates can be found on the website of the Remington Collector's Society of America.
3. Turn the rifle over. On the underside of the barrel there will be a proof "P" stamped about and inch forward of the end of the stock. About an inch or inch and a half behind the muzzle there will be a punch mark under the parkerizing.
4. There will be a minimum of five sub-inspector's stamps on the underside of the stock just forward of the magazine box assembly. Sometimes there are more ( seven or eight) possibly indicating some feature required re-inspection during the manufacturing process.
5. On the left side of the stock A4's will have the Ordnance dept escutcheon (crossed cannon, topped by a flaming bomb encircled in a cannoneer's belt). Next will be the Initials "FJA" indicating final acceptance. The initials will appear by themselves or sometimes are enclosed in a rectangular surround (box).
6. On the pistol grip or wrist of the stock will be a proof "P" in a 7/16" diameter circular surround.
7. Early Rifles tend to use full pistol grip M1903A1 stocks. As production went on the percentage of scant grip m1903A1 stocks increased.
8. Around June of 1943 magazine box assembly was changed to use the large bow (winter) style trigger guard. Early rifles used the small bow trigger guard.
9. Scope mount bases are marked "REDFIELD" on the right rear corner. The rear of the mount is beveled to accommodate the eyepiece bell of the Lyman Alaskan (M73) scope which was approved in Dec 42 but never delivered before production ended.
10. Very early A4's (from a few hundred to a few thousand) were shipped with Standard commercial Weaver 330C Telescopes having a cross wire reticle. A few were shipped with the Weaver "330 Scope - M.8" having a tapered post reticle. Very shortly Weaver started producing more commercial 330C scopes with the military designation "TELESCOPE M73B1 SERIAl No. NNNN" electro-penciled on the side of the tube. These scopes seem to run from about 5000~ to around 10,000~.
Thereafter the style of the designation and style of the adjustment knobs changed slightly a couple of times.
A few other types of scopes were used during the war but are quite rare and not likely to be encountered often.
11. The minor metal stampings will have an "R" or an "R" in a circle stamped on them.
Rear sling swivels are encountered with letters "RP" (Rochester Products) stamped on them.
12. Early A4's around the first 7000 will have four groove barrels. Thereafter two groove barrels were phased in. Toward the end of production two groove barrels were used almost exclusively.

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The M84 scope was developed by the ordnance folks at Frankford Arsenal in 1944. It was not put into production until about 1951, Frankford made a few for test and evaluation in WWII. For the Korean war orders were placed with three (3) manufactures; Libby-Owens-Ford, Leupold-Stevens and Rudolph Wendel Inc. First deliveries were in 1953. About 50,000 were made by all three companies in total. I have never seen a M84 scope that could be identified as made by Rudolf Wendel Inc, Albertson, LI, NY. They may look exactly like L-O-F made ones with minute changes in marking styles. L-O-F made scopes seem to be the most common, About 99% of scopes seen are of L-O-F make. I have four left. They have the white block around the serial number (Wendel may have this too) Some L-O-F scopes have the adjusting sleeve part number on the bottom of the sleeve. Leupold-Stevens (I have one and saw only a few others) has no white block around the serial number and has the part number of the tube at 3:00 o'clock forward of the adjustment housing. My M1903A4 sports a Weaver M73B1. Photo shows Leupold-Stevens (top) and Libby-Owen-Ford scopes.

 

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Here is some info on the M84 scope.

 

The M84 scope replaced the M81 and M82 and was standard issue in April 1945. Peter Senich provided the most detailed information on these scopes that I have found in his book LIMITED WAR SNIPING, Paladin Press, 1977. I found this book at the library while researching info. on the M1D and M84. Chapter 4, Semi-Automatic Sniping System, The M1 Garand, goes into considerable detail on the history of the M1C, M1D and their scope and mount development programs. Page 63 opens the history on the M84 in early 1945. As a 2.2 X conventional design (T134) very similar to the M82, it was to compete in field tests against 3 X and 4.5 X designs in June of '45. For unknown reasons those scopes were rejected and the T134 adopted in April '45 as the M84. It has a universal focus, field of view is 27 feet at 100 yd, diameter is .870 in., length with rubber eye-piece and sunshade extended is 13.2 in., the reticle is a post with horizontal cross-wire, eye relief is 5 in. and it was sealed with rubber gaskets to keep out moisture. In my shooting with it, the top of the post appears to subtend 3 m.o.a., or 3 in. at 100 yd, 6 in. at 200 yd. etc. The elevation dial has 32 threads per inch which provides 40 m.o.a. of vertical movement of the post for one complete revolution of the drum. The finger adjustable knob gives 1 m.o.a. for each click, which are usually felt rather than heard. The elevation scale starts at zero yards and elevates to 900 yards with line marks every 50 yd. and numbers at each hundred yard increment. The windage knob has 20 m.o.a. adjustment both left and right of zero. It has a total windage range of 100 m.o.a. to allow for any mount misalignment. Like the elevation knob, each click moves the post 1 m.o.a.

Since the M84 was to replace those M81/82 scopes coming out of service, only a small number had been produced by the end of WW2. Certainly, none saw combat. The M84 was standard for the M1C, M1D and Springfield M1903-A4, but was not available in quantity until the Korean War. Libby-Owens-Ford was the military contractor along wth a few made by Leupold/Stevens. The M1D/M84 combination was a sniper rifle that could be assembled at the division armorer level as no drilling and tapping of the reciever was required as with the M1C. As a result, many more M1D's were prepared and distributed, seeing service into the late 70's.

An additional source of information on the M1D/M84 is the book, THE LONG RANGE WAR: SNIPING IN VIETNAM by Peter Senich, 1994. In chapter 1 he goes into some detail on the build up of U.S. military activity in the 60's and their reliance on the M1D. Very detailed information with excellent black and white photo's showing details of the various rifle/scope combinations in development are included.. As to the number of M84 scopes produced, the only hint I could locate was in a photo credit Senich gives on page 19, "....with a total of well over 40,000 M84 telescopic sights manufactured before production finally ended, and with the U.S. policy of "surplus disposal" such as it is, this 2.2 power scope will undoubtedly remain in service someplace on this globe for years to come."

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