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Please share your Normandy D-Day NAVY grey striped helmets!


stealthytyler
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

local seller had these photos.

 

One has "taken in France 1944" on the reverse.

 

Not sure of that's correct with the metal hut in the back round.

 

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  • 3 months later...
stealthytyler

I am bringing this thread back to the top in light of the anniversary of D-Day Normandy 6-6-1944.

 

Here is a named helmet that I no longer own. The vet was wounded aboard an LST during the invasion.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Well, I think I'm in the right place with what I'm about to share.

 

I acquired following helmet just recently. It's one of the few pieces I have of which I know came directly from the European battlefields. It was found on a property on the banks of the Meuse river in France near the border with Belgium. I immediately thought D-day navy lid when I first saw it and quickly figured out that there had to be some sort of connection with naval construction battalions or other amphibious units. Of course I've wondered what such a helmet would be doing that far from the Normandy shore, and you may ask yourself the same thing when you read about all of this.

I know the navy normally did not participate in ground operations, but after doing quite a bit of research, the seabees seem to be the exception to that rule. It seems that they established pontoon bridges all over Europe, even fought at Aachen and ferried troops across the Rhine. If that's the case, it's probably a small wonder that the helmet was never repainted after the Normandy invasion. I'm thinking there's a big chance this helmet was forgotten about ca. September 1944, when Patton's third army crossed the Meuse river with the help of these naval construction battalions.

 

I've looked everywhere but I'm having a hard time finding others with white bands instead of grey. I'm still more or less in awe over finding this one but believe it could serve some kind of purpose here as to validating the white band theory. Which is why I'm sharing it.

 

For some reason the top of the helmet was sanded down at the time. There's not a single trace of green paint to be found on it except on the inside. This is a fixed loop McCord helmet with very early, now salty Firestone liner. It's one of very few fully matching helmet sets I've ever had.

 

I can only hope this helmet opens up new doors when it comes to researching these various invasion markings. There's not much left to say, other than I hope you like it as much as I do. It's one of the few helmets I didn't have to doubt about when I first handled it, so, authenticity fortunately isn't a concern. I guess I'll let the pics do the talking now...

 

Let me know what you think. Thanks in any case.

Cheers

Ken

 

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Ken,

In one of the pictures on the first page of this thread there are helmets that look to have white bands and I’ve seen others with definite white bands. As per usual everyone insists that they are grey bands - how the hell you can tell 100% from a black and white photo is beyond me. I’m open to entertain the notion that perhaps not all the bands were grey or blue but I expect I’ll be swimming against the tide on that, anything that doesn’t fit the norm is usually dismissed.

 

Nice helmet by the way.

 

Rich

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Ken,

In one of the pictures on the first page of this thread there are helmets that look to have white bands and I’ve seen others with definite white bands. As per usual everyone insists that they are grey bands - how the hell you can tell 100% from a black and white photo is beyond me. I’m open to entertain the notion that perhaps not all the bands were grey or blue but I expect I’ll be swimming against the tide on that, anything that doesn’t fit the norm is usually dismissed.

 

Nice helmet by the way.

 

Rich

Hi, Rich. Interesting point that you make, but I'm going to disagree a bit. In my experience the norm is the norm for a reason. I haven't seen any Navy shore helmets--especially from the Normandy campaign--where white bands have replaced gray or blue. In fact, without an ID or some other positive marking, I don't think there's enough evidence to be sure that Ken's helmet is Navy. Like you, I've seen helmets with white bands in photos, but they haven't belonged to Navy shore parties working in Normandy. Could there have been some? Sure, I guess so, and I agree with you that Ken's is a nice helmet.

Best,

Bill

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Hi and thanks both very much for your comments.

 

I've seen the photos on the first page and my research has actually revolved around these two pictures of LCVP personnel. These bands really do look white at first sight. To me it looks pretty obvious that the driver is wearing a helmet with a different colored band, like dark grey or blue. But the main reason to assume these bands are in fact white is actually the writings on their jackets. Typical D-day USN jackets seem to have been painted using white paint most of the time, and the bands appear to have been painted using the same paint in these particular photographs. It's still speculation but that has been my reasoning.

 

I don't know if it would be a surefire way of testing this but I could try and find out what the color is by using a colorizer that uses algorithms. I know it's not a perfect tool but it seems to differentiate plain black and white pretty well. I'll see what it does and will post those photos here when they're done.

 

There's one more thing... The fact that the top of this helmet was sanded and looks more brown-ish. I don't know who it was but at some point someone on here suggested that navy helmets had been varnished or something, robbing them of their green paint in the process. I don't know if that would be a good enough reason to assume this helmet was used by navy personnel but it has certainly made me wonder.

 

Thanks again in any case

Cheers

Ken

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So I used the algorithm colorizer, as expected the results are rather disappointing. The bands do appear to be white though. For what it's worth here are another two rare, original color photos (showing navy helmets with typical grey/blue markings) that I converted to black and white photographs. As can be seen the typical navy grey or blue color does not turn into a shade that resembles white. Based on all of this I think it would be fair to conclude that the bands on the helmets as shown in the pictures of LCVP personnel are in fact white. I know all of this doesn't prove my helmet was used at Normandy but it certainly does seem to suggest that white shows up as, well - white, in both color and black/white photography.

 

Photo colorized using algorithms:

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Original color photos converted to black and white:

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stealthytyler

I would agree that those LCVP crew except for the driver are wearing WHITE bands. We have to remember when these bands were painted. All Navy shore units were ordered to identify themselves as Navy just prior to the invasion. The bands were applied just before the crossing of the channel. Many navy units (beach battalions, SeaBees, demolition teams, ESB, etc) were staged at different locations on the southern coast of England. They all had different paint to chose from. The LCVP crews were aboard ship when applying their painted bands. So my point is that there was not 1 large bucket of paint that all shore party units dipped their paint brushes in to create their band on their helmet. There are different shades of grey/blue that are seen on ID's helmets and I would assume that some sailors had no grey paint on hand so they used white (case in point with the LCVP crew photo).

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