Burning Hazard Posted December 13, 2017 Share #1 Posted December 13, 2017 What are your thoughts on this helmet? Original? Seller claims it's a D-Day but, since it's a swivel bail, that's doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share #2 Posted December 13, 2017 pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted December 13, 2017 pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted December 13, 2017 liner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted December 13, 2017 Share #5 Posted December 13, 2017 Let me remind you that jury is still out on a limited amount of swivel loops being therr on d-day, specifically among those in the USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 13, 2017 Share #6 Posted December 13, 2017 Seller said the heat stamp is 810A. So according to the McCord chart it dates to early 1944. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 13, 2017 Share #7 Posted December 13, 2017 https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARCE-WW-2-POSSIBLE-USN-MARKED-GREY-INVASION-BANDED-D-DAY-M-1-HELMET-W-LINER/391944498499?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 13, 2017 Share #8 Posted December 13, 2017 It is worth knowing that many sailors shipped out from the states to England in preparation for the invasion of Normandy in March/April of 1944. So if the lid was produced around January/February of 1944, it MIGHT be possible that an LST crew or similar was outfitted with new gear in March/April just before they departed for England. I used to own a FOXY29 grouping and research showed that he was issues new field gear in late March at Lido Beach. His helmet was a fixed bail though. He was then shipped to England aboard an LST. Just be careful with lids like this that are not named and have no provenance. It is easy to get burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted December 13, 2017 What do you guys think about the paint on the helmet? I'm leaning toward original but not 100% sure if it's original or an old re-enactor helmet. I'm sure it's gonna go for big $$$ on eBay, but what would be the approximate value in your opinions? Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john k Posted December 13, 2017 Share #10 Posted December 13, 2017 What do you guys think about the paint on the helmet? I'm leaning toward original but not 100% sure if it's original or an old re-enactor helmet. I'm sure it's gonna go for big $$$ on eBay, but what would be the approximate value in your opinions? Pat Others are far more knowledgeable than I, but I would say it's probably going to go high enough that it will be one hell of a risky gamble at best considering the lack of ID or provenance. Someone will go for that gamble, but it sure won't be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill47 Posted December 13, 2017 Share #11 Posted December 13, 2017 We should remember that there were some Navy personnel in France who had the gray band painted on their helmets but who didn't land until weeks after D-Day. The band by itself is not proof of D-Day use; it only specifies that the sailor was land-based, some not only on 6 June, but many more in the days and months after. Also, there is documentation that the gray band was worn on Navy helmets during and after the invasion of southern France, beginning in August 1944. This, along with the swivel bail and the fact that it's not ID'd, would significantly decrease my interest in it. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 14, 2017 Share #12 Posted December 14, 2017 We should remember that there were some Navy personnel in France who had the gray band painted on their helmets but who didn't land until weeks after D-Day. The band by itself is not proof of D-Day use; it only specifies that the sailor was land-based, some not only on 6 June, but many more in the days and months after. Also, there is documentation that the gray band was worn on Navy helmets during and after the invasion of southern France, beginning in August 1944. This, along with the swivel bail and the fact that it's not ID'd, would significantly decrease my interest in it. Bill I agree that we all assume this to be fact... but I want to see documents proving that the grey band was ordered for sailors that were shore bound. Does anyone have any documents to support these assumptions? There are tons of photos and videos out there that support this but im looking for actual documents. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill47 Posted December 14, 2017 Share #13 Posted December 14, 2017 I think that photos and videos are documents, just in a different form. I’m sure that someone on this forum has provided the actual orders regarding the gray bands—I’ve seen them—but how important is that, when we have seen so many helmets that support the practice of painting Navy helmets of shore-assigned personnel, no matter when they landed? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 14, 2017 Share #14 Posted December 14, 2017 I think that photos and videos are documents, just in a different form. I’m sure that someone on this forum has provided the actual orders regarding the gray bands—I’ve seen them—but how important is that, when we have seen so many helmets that support the practice of painting Navy helmets of shore-assigned personnel, no matter when they landed? Bill Written documents would, I assume, shed more light on the practice of the stripes than photos themselves. I have seen photos of sailors on the beach at normandy WITH AND WITHOUT grey stripes. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 15, 2017 Share #15 Posted December 15, 2017 Written documents would, I assume, shed more light on the practice of the stripes than photos themselves. I have seen photos of sailors on the beach at normandy WITH AND WITHOUT grey stripes. What gives? Document or no document defining an order given...possible some followed it and some didn't.We may never know. Some of the best documentation would be from the veterans themselves but much of this information is lost to time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 15, 2017 Share #16 Posted December 15, 2017 Document or no document defining an order given...possible some followed it and some didn't.We may never know. Some of the best documentation would be from the veterans themselves but much of this information is lost to time True. I know a guy still living who was in the 7th beach battalion. I'll ask him tomorrow how he found out about the need to paint his lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted December 15, 2017 Share #17 Posted December 15, 2017 my guess, is most likely a fake reenactor's helmet, the band kind of looks fresh to me? could have been aged, also the paint stain on the webbing looks recent, doesnt convince me for some reason. plus it's a swivel bail, so unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 15, 2017 Share #18 Posted December 15, 2017 my guess, is most likely a fake reenactor's helmet, the band kind of looks fresh to me? could have been aged, also the paint stain on the webbing looks recent, doesnt convince me for some reason. plus it's a swivel bail, so unlikely Never know...every one always assumes D-Day....as stated there were many D-days in WW2 The flash isn't helping the pictures much and if the paint on the rim was sanded would be a tell.Sometbings only told when in hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted December 15, 2017 Share #19 Posted December 15, 2017 I see so many DDAY helmets these days, it's almost getting to be like those Capt Miller helmets from Saving Pvt Ryan they're seems to be an unusual high number of these popping up? and Im sure many more will be appearing after this one is sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 15, 2017 Share #20 Posted December 15, 2017 I see so many DDAY helmets these days, it's almost getting to be like those Capt Miller helmets from Saving Pvt Ryan they're seems to be an unusual high number of these popping up? and Im sure many more will be appearing after this one is sold. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share #21 Posted December 15, 2017 I agree with what BOLO said, the grey band seems fresh, almost as if it was covered in with dirt/ageing, that's why I wasn't 100% sure, it would of been easier if held in hand or if better quality pics were posted. Also the liner is too clean, probably added on. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted December 15, 2017 Share #22 Posted December 15, 2017 This came from a man in the 7th BB "I painted my helmet at the base in Salcombe before we were transferred out to our staging areas My officer in charge of the platoon passed the word around to the troops. I was told it identified us as a beach battalion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted December 15, 2017 This came from a man in the 7th BB "I painted my helmet at the base in Salcombe before we were transferred out to our staging areas My officer in charge of the platoon passed the word around to the troops. I was told it identified us as a beach battalion." I also heard that some beach battalions were told by word to paint their helmets last minute, like right before hitting the beach. That is probably why there's so many variations in grey bands, widths, full bands around the helmet etc. there was no specific order on how to paint their helmets, it was just "paint a grey band". Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWIIDADS Posted December 15, 2017 Share #24 Posted December 15, 2017 I'm told by the EBAY seller he got the helmet 20 years ago in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania (This is region surrounding Allentown) with no apparent history, but from local estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted December 15, 2017 Share #25 Posted December 15, 2017 I'm pretty sure it was found in a barn in normany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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