Jump to content

Early Woodland Combat Coat?


McDermut99
 Share

Recommended Posts

I picked this woodland uniform up along with some other woodlands but I noticed some differences in the labels and the fabric. The most apparent difference is that the label on it say Coat, Combat as opposed to the typical Coat, Hot Weather, Woodland Camouflage Pattern, Combat. Also the dyed pattern seems more striking on the coat in question compared to the standard woodland. I may be overthinking these differences but I was wondering if the this is an early version of the woodland coat and what is the reasons for these differences? (I made sure to find a fairly unworn woodland to compare.)

Any comments are greatly appreciated!

 

Here are some pictures of the Coat, Combat in question:

 

47ceabcd1dcffdc6e223e530284dac6c.jpg

a6ee5b1309346ae32053c62f3388db61.jpg

ecfcdabffabbd2a70f8babe1aa7a68a5.jpg

ead735975bf7a970934641923954d707.jpg

 

And here are some pictures of a common woodland coat:

 

a4884ce84768a6118c3aa02696848e1c.jpg

11dcc4e71c476649d3f15bc1b0abbae6.jpg

55e0781e7c2ec31312ee6f233291fcb4.jpg

7be3dd03ff4b1b3f6312d7394e3e3782.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the earliest issue BDUs will have White Tags and will not be in Rip Stop. Was out by the time the R/S came out, but perhaps this is an early issue of the R/S BDU?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

milsurp_scout_14

Based on the fact that there is no contract number, I would say that Camo Distributors jacket is definitely made for the civilian market. Usually military labels don't say 'Made in the USA' because by law, nearly everything the military uses HAS to be made here. Also can't find any evidence that they held a government contract. Looks like it's in great shape though!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would be interesting to see some of the details as that could help place them, time wise.

 

Things like the shape of the collar ("Elvis" or skinny), whether the upper pockets are pleated to the inside or outside, distance between upper and lower pockets, presence or absence of waist tabs, design of cuff - all of these things changed periodically during the BDU era.

 

For sure the ripstop ones can't be earlier than about 1986, that's when they came out.

 

It's also true that there were lots of BDUs made for both the civilian and export market. Of course, the fact that a BDU was made for the civilian market doesn't mean it wasn't worn by a GI. There were some service members who bought commercially made BDUs for various reasons (price, availability, etc.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a commercial copy. The BDU was never made in 50 % cotton and 50 % polyester. As stated earlier, issued BDUs labels never said made in the U.S.A. These uniforms were sold by multiple companies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a commercial copy. The BDU was never made in 50 % cotton and 50 % polyester. As stated earlier, issued BDUs labels never said made in the U.S.A. These uniforms were sold by multiple companies.

 

I'm pretty sure the first run of BDUs was 50/50 Cotton Nyco.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'm pretty sure the first run of BDUs was 50/50 Cotton Nyco.

Checking just now my two White Tag 1981 BDU Caps I still have from when I first got them in May 1982 (Gave the two sets of coats and trousers away long time ago), gives material content as 65% Cotton 35% Nylon, I assume this was the same for the coat and trousers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Checking just now my two White Tag 1981 BDU Caps I still have from when I first got them in May 1982 (Gave the two sets of coats and trousers away long time ago), gives material content as 65% Cotton 35% Nylon, I assume this was the same for the coat and trousers.

 

I wouldn't assume that. Hats and shirts are very different and it wouldn't surprise me to find that the material is different as well.

 

I don't even know if I have any old temperate BDUs at home but if I do I'll check them to see if they're 65/35 or 50/50.

 

Either way, the "Made in USA" marks this as likely a commercial variant, but since military personnel did sometimes wear commercial BDUs, the fact that it's commercial doesn't mean it's not a legitimate US military item.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I wouldn't assume that. Hats and shirts are very different and it wouldn't surprise me to find that the material is different as well.

 

I don't even know if I have any old temperate BDUs at home but if I do I'll check them to see if they're 65/35 or 50/50.

 

Either way, the "Made in USA" marks this as likely a commercial variant, but since military personnel did sometimes wear commercial BDUs, the fact that it's commercial doesn't mean it's not a legitimate US military item.

Check.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I wouldn't assume that. Hats and shirts are very different and it wouldn't surprise me to find that the material is different as well.

 

I don't even know if I have any old temperate BDUs at home but if I do I'll check them to see if they're 65/35 or 50/50.

 

Either way, the "Made in USA" marks this as likely a commercial variant, but since military personnel did sometimes wear commercial BDUs, the fact that it's commercial doesn't mean it's not a legitimate US military item.

 

I have a first year 1981 dated white tag BDU. They were 50/50. I also have a very late temperate BDU and it is also 50/50. I believe that all temperate BDUs were 50/50 from the start of production until the end. The first lightweight BDUs were rip stop 100 % cotton. Around 1993 or 1994 the lightweight BDUs were changed to a rip stop 50/50 cotton/nylon blend. The temperate BDU hats were 80/20 throughout production. When the lightweight BDU hats came out around 1996 they were rip stop 50/50. The field jacket was 50/50 throughout production.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I have a first year 1981 dated white tag BDU. They were 50/50. I also have a very late temperate BDU and it is also 50/50. I believe that all temperate BDUs were 50/50 from the start of production until the end. The first lightweight BDUs were rip stop 100 % cotton. Around 1993 or 1994 the lightweight BDUs were changed to a rip stop 50/50 cotton/nylon blend. The temperate BDU hats were 80/20 throughout production. When the lightweight BDU hats came out around 1996 they were rip stop 50/50. The field jacket was 50/50 throughout production.

 

Correction on my post above. The first BDU hats were 65/35. I have one dated 1984 that is still 65/35. Every hat I have from 1986 forward is 80/20 so I'm guessing that a change occurred somewhere around 1985.

 

I wore BDUs from 1985 to 2006 when we switched to the UCP ACU. I kept all of my BDUs, about twenty sets, and they show multiple design changes over the years. I'm glad I kept them. They make a great reference. I think they don't attract much attention from collectors because they aren't associated with any major conflict. They did see action in Grenada, Panama, and the first Gulph War. And they were worn on various peacekeeping/stability operations like Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, etc. and in Cold War spots like Germany and South Korea. They were a great uniform for their time and served the Soldier well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have done a bit of research on Woodland BDU jackets and, from my limited research, everything stated above is correct. To elaborate a little further:

-Temperate BDUs were the ONLY BDUs made from 1981-1984. They were not fun in high temperatures, and were destined to, not necessarily be replaced, but be improved upon.

 

- FY1981 manufactured BDU jackets are commonly assumed to be the only white label BDU jackets made, however a select few FY1982 manufactured jackets also received white labels as well. Also to note is the color on early BDUs. From what I gather, after hard use, the black on SOME 1981 produced jackets turn somewhat of a DARK purple. Many of these "first issue" jackets ended up in Marines stocks, so it is not rare to find them marked with the USMC EG&A on the pocket.

 

- There are a few different GENERAL patterns that BDUs of any type usually follow. The first (1981-1984) is mainly differentiated from the rest by it's large "Elvis" collar and top pockets being sewn down on their outside edges. The second (1984-1992) introduced the smaller collar, adjustment tabs on the waist, as well as the top pockets now being sewn down on their inside edge. The third (1993-END), and final, is largely the same as the third, with the exception of a somewhat slimmer profile and the removal of the waist adjustment tabs. There are many instances of overlapping patterns and types of BDU.

 

- Temperate BDU's were produced throughout the entire time the military used the BDU, in a 50/50 NYCO blend. Due to this, temperate jackets can be found in every "pattern" that was made for BDU's.

 

- The Hot Weather BDU started manufacture in FY 1985, and used a 100% Cotton Ripstop construction. The 100% Cotton did not hold up well to starching and turned white after hard use. They were only manufactured until FY 1993.

 

- Starting in FY1994, the Enhanced Hot Weather BDU started to be produced with a 50/50 NYCO Ripstop construction. This proved much better that the 100% cotton HWBDUs.

 

This is just from the research I have done and I may be reinventing the wheel. Most of the jackets I used were ones I found on eBay that I myself could discern the info I needed from. Never used what was in the description. I do have links to each one, although they may have expired.

It is a somewhat confusing and hard to explain topic. A diagram would probably help the explanation a lot. It anyone has any jackets they would like to relay info to me from, please drop me a PM. The info can only help us further understand BDUs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BDUs, along with those Camo Fritz helmets were made starting in the mid-sh 70s for trials (as seen in several photos and articles in various SOLDIERS Magazines from those days, like years like 1977, 1978, 1979. Curious as to when the established pattern/design as seen in the 1981 full scale production came about, and conversely the material content. Trials means just that, so we imagine they must of tinkered around with slight designs reworks and material contents before going with what they thought was the best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One other item. The Army never distinguished between any of the BDU changes or types, other than not mixing temperate and hot weather uniform items. So, a 1981 Elvis collar BDU was still authorized for wear on the final wear out date of April 30th 2008. There were also small changes related to button locations, the type of cuff, sewn down pockets, small pleats on the trouser knees, etc.

 

Also, there were a lot of BDUs that were not issued for years after they were in the system. So it was not unusual for a first pattern BDU to pop up years after the newer patterns were in common use.

 

I had written a BDU guide that I posted on the forum some years ago but all the pictures are now gone. I should really update it with new pictures and repost it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I found my old write up, minus pictures, so I thought I'd repost it here. My comments are related only to the U.S. Army. Every service wore the BDU but I am only familiar with how they were worn/issued in the Army.


The Woodland BDU was first authorized for wear on 1 Oct. 1981. It's purpose was, for the first time, to provide all Soldiers with a cammo uniform. Prior to its introduction, most Soldiers were wearing the poly/cotton durable press OG 507 utility uniform introduced in 1975 or the older cotton version of the same uniform. Select units like the Ranger Battalions, the 82nd Airborne, 101st Airborne, SF, etc. were either wearing the old OG 107 jungle fatigues, the brown dominant slant pocket ERDL uniform, or more commonly the woodland variant of the RDF pattern cammo.
The first version of the BDU was made with a heavy weight 50/50 cotton/nylon material. The identifying features are the large "butterfly" or "Elvis" collar. The top pockets are sewn flat on the outside and the inside and bottom have are bellowed to allow the pocket to expand. The bottom pockets have a bellows on both sides and the bottom. The cuff is adjusted by a tab with two buttons. All 1981 contract BDU's have white tags, most 1982 and after uniforms have a light green tag.

Experience in Grenada led the Army to tweak the jackets design and to introduce a new lightweight 100 % cotton rip stop version n 1985. After the introduction of the lightweight BDU, the Army referred to the heavyweight version as the "temperate BDU" and the lightweight version as the "hot weather BDU". Both were permitted for wear year round but you could not mix and match uniform components.

Identifying features are the smaller collar and an adjusting tab at the waist. The upper pockets were now sewn flat on the inside and the bellows were moved to the outside of the pocket. The light weight version faded quickly and wore out under hard use.

The next version came out somewhere around 1993. The identifying features were the removal of the waist adjusting tabs on the jacket, the bottom pockets were now sewn flat on the bottom and inside edge with the bellows to the outside. Three inches of material were removed from the waist to present a trimmer appearance, and finally the cuffs were now changed from an adjusting tab to a normal shirt style cuff.

The hot weather version was identical. All of the hot weather 100 % cotton BDUs I have in this style from this time period have an asterisk at the top of the size tag. If I remember correctly, this version was supposed to be made in 50/50 nylon cotton material but that change was delayed so the asterisk was put on the tag to signify that the uniform was still 100 % cotton.

The final change was the Enhanced Hot Weather BDU that came out in 1996. This version was the same style as the above but was made in the 50/50 nylon cotton material. This change was made primarily to enhance the durability of the hot weather uniform. A new lightweight hat of the same material came out the same time.

The Woodland BDU was in use from 1 Oct 1981 until its wear out date of 30 April 2008. Other services wore it well beyond that date. It was an excellent uniform for its time and the heavy weight version wore like iron. It was copied by Armies around the world and was worn by the U.S. Army in places like Grenada, Panama, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, Desert Storm and during the later stages of the Cold War. Throughout its service life the Army made no distinction between the various styles and all were authorized for wear until the wear out date was established. The DCU version certainly saw more action but modern body armor exposed its short comings leading to the introduction of the ACU in 2005.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...