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H-H and J/O Pilot Wings


5thwingmarty

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I was sorting through my pilot wings this afternoon and inadvertently discovered something I wasn't aware of before, and searching here on the site didn't see and reference to either. My Hilborn-Hamburger (H-H) and Josiah Odence (J/O) AAF pilot wings are from the same or matching dies. I first noticed that the H-H wing has a similar stipple finish on the recessed stripes, and then noticed the J/O wing also had them. Closer inspection found they were a match. My J/O wing looks to have been made from a damaged die or possibly has a bit a metal debris get stamped into the face of the wing.

 

Not sure if this was a case of one company buying a die from another, or one company subbing production to another. As the hallmarks on both wings are incised, they could have been done post wing stamping so it's possible a third party actually made the wings for both companies.

 

Anyone else with pilot wings from both these companies please compare and see if you don't think they were from the same or matching dies.

 

post-96854-0-21090600-1512768834_thumb.jpg

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And the backs. Just noticed I swapped who was on top when I took the photo of the backs.

post-96854-0-45023400-1512768936_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for adding that. I checked my Amico Pilot and it does not have the stippled recesses. The width of the recessed stripes is also narrower so mine is definitely not from the same die. Is the srat on your wing stamped with the rest of the wing or was it attached from a separate piece? Also, can you post a photo of the back of your wing?

 

My H-H wing has a flat edge profile and measures 3-1/8" tip to tip. My J/O has been bent to give it a vaulted edge profile and it measures 3-1/16" tip to tip, without taking into account the loss of width due to the vaulting. Flattened out it would also come to 3-1/8".

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I was going through my wings earlier today before you produced your input. I found at least four different manufacturers used virtually the identical pattern to those shown here to produce their wings. Jack

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Thanks for adding that.  I checked my Amico Pilot and it does not have the stippled recesses.  The width of the recessed stripes is also narrower so mine is definitely not from the same die.  Is the srat on your wing stamped with the rest of the wing or was it attached from a separate piece?  Also, can you post a photo of the back of your wing?

 

My H-H wing has a flat edge profile and measures 3-1/8" tip to tip.  My J/O has been bent to give it a vaulted edge profile and it measures 3-1/16" tip to tip, without taking into account the loss of width due to the vaulting.  Flattened out it would also come to 3-1/8". 

Here’s the back view. The star has been added rather than being integral to the die. As an aside, I have 3-4 Amico pilot wings and one is stippled in the recess, one has fine lines and the others are plain, so a real mixed bag of styles.

 

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Thanks for adding that. I found a thread here about one of the patterns of Norsid hallmarked pilot wings and it looks like it might have the stippling in the recessed stripes as well. Sorry my computer won't let me copy and paste links to other threads.

 

Does anyone else have any different manufacture-hallmarked wings in this pattern with the stippled recessed stripes? I know LGB had a similar style wing, but my example has narrower recessed stripes and no stippling so it is not from a duplicate die.

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We always assume that each retail company had there own dies and facilities. I suspect that at least in some cases retail stores were actually buying merchandise from wholesale manufactures. Think of the case of Luxenberg wings coming from Blackinton and AECo

 

I suspect that is what we are seeing here, at least in part, that these wings are actually from a wholesale manufacturer that were sold by the various retail companies

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  • 9 months later...

This was an insightful thread on an enigmatic insignia producer. For what it's worth, Odence submarine dolphins are very similar to AMICO, but they used distinct dies that are discernable from the front. I need to take a closer look to see if JO paerhaps purchased a set of dies from AMICO and then retouched it to produce the observed differences.

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  • 2 years later...

I have a J/O naval wing headed my way, and it also looks to be from the same die as used by H-H.  Does anyone know if all J/O wings were made from the same dies as H-H wings?

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Marty,

 

Here's a link to the J/O on my site: J/O Wing and here's an H&H: H&H wing if it helps with comparison.  Note that the shields don't match on these.  The H&H wing has a stippling pattern in the top of the shield and the H&H does not.  The berries also look different.  Not to say that there aren't some H&H patterns that do match the J/O (perhaps the Imperial marked wings) but these do not.

 

Bob

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Thanks Bob. 

 

There are some details that match like the number and placement of the berries, and the grooves and angles at the shoulders, but other details like the stippling and piercings that don't.  I could see this being the case of the die being reworked at some point to alter some details.

 

Marty

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