rustywings Posted December 23, 2011 Share #276 Posted December 23, 2011 1923 dated press-release photo of Frank Lahm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted December 23, 2011 Share #277 Posted December 23, 2011 Back of the 1923 dated photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share #278 Posted December 24, 2011 Merry Christmas, Russ. Thanks for posting some fine, new (to me) Frank Lamm pictures. He, with Milling & Fulois appear in a number of c.1953 publicity pictures, some published in Life Magazine during the various celebrations of the 50th Anniversary of powered flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted December 25, 2011 Share #279 Posted December 25, 2011 Merry Christmas, Russ. Thanks for posting some fine, new (to me) Frank Lamm pictures. He, with Milling & Fulois appear in a number of c.1953 publicity pictures, some published in Life Magazine during the various celebrations of the 50th Anniversary of powered flight. Thank you Paul. And Merry Christmas to you and the rest of our Forum Family. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-rat63 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #280 Posted February 12, 2012 I've been satisfying a curiosity by writing a paper about the first 24 Military Aviators--the men who wore the wing that Hap Arnold wore all his life. Getting an image of each of them wearing their wing is likely impossible, but I'm finding that some of those guys are really obscure and difficult to find at all on the net. Of course, a number of them were killed during the early days of flight and didn't live long enough to leave much about themselves behind, much less a nice portrait or candid photo. Question: do any of you have some pictures of these guys in your files? I can post a list of the names if that would help, and indicate which ones I have had trouble finding. Preference would be for a picture of the man wearing his badge like Hap Arnold below; or just a good quality image of the man; or in a few cases any image at all. If there is any interest in this thread I can provide more specific information as to needs. Thanks. Thats a good picture thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted March 1, 2012 Share #281 Posted March 1, 2012 I hope that there might be something in this picture that is useful. Does anyone know the time frame of when it was taken ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted March 1, 2012 Share #282 Posted March 1, 2012 Here is another photo. One of the men in this picture is Ward Rice who was a mechanic and also had some flying time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted March 1, 2012 Share #283 Posted March 1, 2012 Here is another photo. One of the men in this picture is Ward Rice who was a mechanic and also had some flying time That airplane is Signal Corps #8 built by Curtiss. The picture had to of been taken sometime in early 1913 at the Signal Corps Aviaton School in San Diego because #8 was converted into a seaplane in May, 1913 before being sent to Hawaii. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted March 1, 2012 Share #284 Posted March 1, 2012 Cliff, When you say that it is S.C. #8 is that the actual number of the plane ? Or is it a Curtis # ? And if it is the S.C. # how can you tell ? Here is a photo of Rice and machine. Could he, as an enlisted man, get some sort of qualification badge for flying ? Thanks M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted March 2, 2012 Share #285 Posted March 2, 2012 Cliff, When you say that it is S.C. #8 is that the actual number of the plane? Or is it a Curtis #? And if it is the S.C. # how can you tell? SC #8 means it was the eighth airplane purchased by the Aviation Section of the Signal Corps. When No. 8 was delivered to the Army by Curtiss on 12 March 1912 it was a two-seater. In mid-November 1912 while still a two-seater it was sent from College Park, Maryland to San Diego where Glenn Curtiss operated a flying school on North Island and had leased part of the facility to the Army for the winter. At some time in the spring of 1913 the airplane was converted to a single-seater and its large radiator was moved from behind the front support brace for the engine bed to the front of the support brace just behind the pilot... and that is how the airplane is configured in the photo you provided. That's how you can tell. Here is a photo of Rice and machine. Could he, as an enlisted man, get some sort of qualification badge for flying? Thanks M Rice was an Aviation Mechanician at North Island in 1913 who eventually received an enlisted pilot rating. The first insignia for enlisted pilots was not approved until sometime in August of 1917. It was nothing more than a dark blue or black shoulder sleeve patch which had an embroidered white four bladed propeller sitting between two wings sewn to it. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted March 2, 2012 Share #286 Posted March 2, 2012 Cliff, The first time I met the Rice's they told me that their father flew with the Wright brothers. Needless to say I didn't believe it. It wasn't until years later that they showed me some photos of Ward Rice with the Wright Bros. They also told me that W.R. was a military pilot. I didn't believe that until now. Thank you for your help. In the second photo I posted Rice is in a different plane. Is this one from the Wrights or is it also a Curtiss ? So how close is Rice to the first 24 aviators ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted March 2, 2012 Share #287 Posted March 2, 2012 Cliff, Thank you so much for the information about Rice. I have a small grouping of his things that came from a family member. Where does your information about Rice come from ? That is the only information I was able to find on Rice; however, there is a book available titled THEY ALSO FLEW: The Enlisted Pilot Legacy 1912-1942, written by Lee Arbon, which may have something on him but I don't have a copy in my library. I would love to know more about him. His grandson swears that there is an "AVIATOR wing pinned to his green uniform". I have his blue uniform and hat and there is nothing on it. I also have 6 real photo post cards 3 of which I have posted here. It's possible that he may have received a commission during World War 1 and the rating Reserve Military Aviator (RMA) which would account for the AVIATOR wing being on the uniform his grandson has; however, I have a complete list of all Officers who held Military Aviator, Junior Military Aviator and RMA ratings during the war and his name is not in it. With that thought in mind, he may have bought a wing just to wear unofficially while off base as some enlisted pilots were known to do. What plane is Rice in in the second plane photo. It is different than the Curtis plane. The airplane in the second photo is S.C. #6 which was also built by Curtiss, and yes it was different in many ways from S.C. #8. Thank you so much for posting. I can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear that he qualified as a pilot. The family told me he flew But I wasn't too sure. I've heard a lot of stories over the years. Do you know what year he qualified and was he the first EM to qualify ?? I appreciate any information you can provide. I have searched the web for many years unable to find the info you have told me today. Thanks again M The first enlisted man who received official orders to train as a pilot was Sgt. Vernon L. Burge who held F.A.I. Certificate No. 154, issued on 14 August 1912. I haven't a clue as to what year Rice became a pilot. What most people may not be aware of is that there were a number of enlisted men who flew before 1920 that never received official recognition for being pilots — so their status has always remained vague. One attempt to clarify the situation was made on 22 January 1919 when the commanding officer of the Air Mechanics School at Kelly Field asking the Office of Military Aeronautics (OMA) for a definition of “enlisted aviator” so that he would be able to know exactly which of his men were entitled to wear the enlisted aviator insignia on the upper shoulder of their tunics. The OMA sent a reply back on 31 January 1919 advising the CO that although uniform regulations and specifications provide for an insignia to be worn by enlisted aviators, the grade itself had never been officially created meaning there was no one in the Army officially entitled to wear the insignia provided for the grade . In other words, in official terms all enlisted aviators, who had served before and during World War 1 as instructors, ferry pilots, test pilots, and mechanical flight-check pilots, did not exist—at least not up to that point! Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted March 3, 2012 Share #288 Posted March 3, 2012 Cliff, I want to bore into your brain and claim your knowledge as my own. Where did you find the information you have on Rice ?? Where did the information come from that you can identify the Curtiss planes by number ? I am simply amazed at the information you've shared. Many thanks and if you are willing to share the sources or sources of your illuminations you have a disciple in me. M PS. The photo with the seven planes on the flight line the, very first one ( on the left of the picture ) seems to have a flatter top wing than the others. Is it also a Curtiss ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted March 3, 2012 Share #289 Posted March 3, 2012 (1) Where did you find the information you have on Rice ?? (2) Where did the information come from that you can identify the Curtiss planes by number ? (3) The photo with the seven planes on the flight line the, very first one ( on the left of the picture ) seems to have a flatter top wing than the others. Is it also a Curtiss ?? (1) The United States Army Air Arm April 1861 to April 1917; by Juliette A. Hennessy, Office of Air Force History - Washington, DC. (2) U. S. Military Aircraft 1908 to April 6, 1917, Vol. 2, Curtiss D, E, F, G, and Armored Tractor; by Robert B. Casari. (3) Wish I could help you identify it but due to the poor quality of the photo these old eyes can't make it out. Most probably S.C. #2 built by Curtiss. PS: The photo in post #284 of Rice seen sitting in S.C. #6 was taken in August, GA sometime in 1912. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share #290 Posted March 3, 2012 Here is another group picture showing 6 of the early planes at North Island about August 1913. SC 2 & SC 6 are marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathbonemuseum.com Posted March 26, 2012 Share #291 Posted March 26, 2012 Hi. I would like to help. What is missing? I don't want to duplicate. I have gone through all the threads and it seems there is still about half of the men to go. Do you want histories or just pics? Cheers, Tod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted March 26, 2012 Share #292 Posted March 26, 2012 Hi. I would like to help. What is missing? I don't want to duplicate. I have gone through all the threads and it seems there is still about half of the men to go. Do you want histories or just pics? Cheers, Tod BOTH! This is one of the best USMF threads ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathbonemuseum.com Posted March 27, 2012 Share #293 Posted March 27, 2012 The military aviator badge held at the National Museum of the US Air Force attributed to 1Lt. Hollis LeRoy Muller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swag Posted June 19, 2012 Share #294 Posted June 19, 2012 A young Hap Arnold (thanks to cobrahistorian and locobuster for ID'ing him). I found this picture in the archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swag Posted June 19, 2012 Share #295 Posted June 19, 2012 Close up of the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted June 22, 2012 Share #296 Posted June 22, 2012 That is the only information I was able to find on Rice; however, there is a book available titled THEY ALSO FLEW: The Enlisted Pilot Legacy 1912-1942, written by Lee Arbon, which may have something on him but I don't have a copy in my library. Cliff, I have a copy of this book and Rice is not in it. -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightpath Posted December 20, 2012 Share #297 Posted December 20, 2012 Maj General Herbert A. Dargue Born in Brooklyn, NY 17 November 1886 KIA near Bishop, CA 12 December 1941 General Dargue was killed in an aircraft accident..... General Dargue was to lead the investigation as to why the United States had been unprepared for the attack on Pearl Harbour, However, while flying to Hawaii to take his new post, Dargue's aircraft crashed in the mountains outside Bishop, California, and he was killed. Dargue was the first Army General to die on duty during WWII. cheers, -John (just keeping the records straight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted July 6, 2013 Share #298 Posted July 6, 2013 Wonderful photo of 1/Lt Joseph Dodge Park who earned his Military Aviator (MA) rating on May 7, 1913. Picture taken at the Signal Corps Aviation School at North Island, San Diego, CA. He was killed in an air accident two days later on May 9, 1913. Park Field, Millington, Tennessee, was named in his memory. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carjon Posted July 17, 2014 Share #299 Posted July 17, 2014 Here is one of Frank Lahm on the podium at Kelly Field.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted July 18, 2014 Share #300 Posted July 18, 2014 Avaition15_sm.jpg Here is one of Frank Lahm on the podium at Kelly Field.... Wow... very very nice picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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