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Discussion Of Pinned "Known Fakes" Thread

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Administrative Notice: The discussion of the pinned thread found here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/300530-known-fake-helmets-and-their-creators/ has been moved to this thread so that the discussion does not muddy up the intent of the pinned thread. So, feel free to post your concerns below:
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This is a great thread. For some of us who are interested but are too gun-shy to even dive into the world of helmets, why don't you point out what the issues are (and how they should be) with each one?


I do not profess to be a militaria expert, but I conduct as much research as I am capable of and then write about my findings.
Check out my blogs, The Veteran's Collection (general militaria) and Chevrons and Diamonds (military baseball)

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Kerstens

 

I'm curious what made this a fake helmet, or is this just an opinion. Seems this thread could become a witch hunt real quick without evidence, not saying it's not a bad idea but if someone is going to declare a helmet as fake they should have the evidence to back it up and prove it.

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I'm curious what made this a fake helmet, or is this just an opinion. Seems this thread could become a witch hunt real quick without evidence, not saying it's not a bad idea but if someone is going to declare a helmet as fake they should have the evidence to back it up and prove it.

 

I agree. Pictures with no discussion only helps those who already know a lot about helmets.


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I agree. Pictures with no discussion only helps those who already know a lot about helmets.

 

I believe Bugme's original intent here is to document as many specific, known (not speculative) forgeries for the sole purpose of protecting future buyers. Getting lost in the weeds on each and every one of them would dilute the thread and make it less useful.

 

That said, your point is valid, and a separate thread concerning itself with the ouija-ninja art of detecting recently painted helmets would absolutely be of interest to many here. The question will naturally be, of course, to what extent does information disclosed on a public forum simply hand ammo to the fakers that they will use to improve their trade.



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I believe Bugme's original intent here is to document as many specific, known (not speculative) forgeries for the sole purpose of protecting future buyers. Getting lost in the weeds on each and every one of them would dilute the thread and make it less useful.

 

That said, your point is valid, and a separate thread concerning itself with the ouija-ninja art of detecting recently painted helmets would absolutely be of interest to many here. The question will naturally be, of course, to what extent does information disclosed on a public forum simply hand ammo to the fakers that they will use to improve their trade.

 

Thank you for your consideration. If Bugme would like to split these discussions into a separate thread, I agree that a separate thread might be of more use.

 

However, I agree with Bob who said just posting helmets could turn into a witch hunt.

 

Regarding whether or not to disclose information that would assist fakers IMO is not a valid point. They will improve their trade by any and all means. There was a "respected" collector among the helmet collecting community who turned out to be a faker. His talents were learned from within not from a public forum. Isn't education the most important point?


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Let me be clear, I have only started this thread because of the constant PM's I receive stating that we need a database of known fakes. Everyone wants me to do something but, hey, I'm just one guy here. As Jeff correctly pointed out, these are to be "KNOWN" fakes. That means previously discussed and the artefaker properly pointed out. I have already deleted 5 helmets from this thread which did not meet this criteria. I will heavily moderate this thread and if need be, delete this entire thread if it becomes a problem.

Listen, we are trying to make this a helpful resource to all helmet collectors, please don't complicate this.


"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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The ones I posted have threads on them and are confirmed fakes, they can be found by searching.

 

Anyways I was trying to contribute but I see this is going to get out of hand pretty quick so I'm out.


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The ones I posted have threads on them and are confirmed fakes, they can be found by searching.

 

Anyways I was trying to contribute but I see this is going to get out of hand pretty quick so I'm out.

 

Searching for a thread can be a real pain, heck I can't find some of my old threads when I need them. Anyway, just post the link with the helmet and that should meet the requirements. As long as it's proof and not opinion.

 

The success of this thread will be based on PROOF of a fake and not an overall OPINION of a suspected fake. Even though we may all agree it's FAKE, that's not proof. This thread can be very valuable if done correctly.

 

I unsuccessfully tried to find a thread I posted years ago about a daughter selling parts of her sick father's estate (on ebay) including a bunch of great looking helmets and the daughter who was selling her fathers collection confirmed all the helmets were painted and aged by a local artist for display only in his collection room. So I posted them all (Somewhere here) because I knew they would leave that estate and make their way to the collector market. Those would be prime examples to post here with a link to the original thread if I can find it.

 

Troy


USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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The ones I posted have threads on them and are confirmed fakes, they can be found by searching.

 

Anyways I was trying to contribute but I see this is going to get out of hand pretty quick so I'm out.

Dude...chill. I apologize for seeking greater details and understanding. Not sure why that warranted this sort of response. I also don't see where this thread was going awry.

 

How are we getting so sensitive in all of these threads? This is a community that has greatly helped each other with threads such as these. With my thread about fakers, I provided the details (understanding the risks that such fraudsters could then employ to create better fakes) to help others to discern what was being put forward. I see that (at least for the present) that the information has seemingly impacted his cottage industry.

 

I apologize for asking for too much of this thread. My intentions were genuine and without any measure of a critical nature.


I do not profess to be a militaria expert, but I conduct as much research as I am capable of and then write about my findings.
Check out my blogs, The Veteran's Collection (general militaria) and Chevrons and Diamonds (military baseball)

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The ones I posted have threads on them and are confirmed fakes, they can be found by searching.

 

Anyways I was trying to contribute but I see this is going to get out of hand pretty quick so I'm out.

 

Well, again I have to ask, what made the 501st helmet from Kerstens fake. The threads on it have a lot of debate over the ways it was offered for sale, but there was no factual proof that anyone created it so to just state it's fake without proof then state "I'm out" when called on it has no purpose. Again I think you're on a slippery slope here and IMHO your best off to discuss or expose each helmet individually instead of this mass of conjecture, granted there are known fakes here but to try and lump this into one big thread versus individual discussions will only defeat what this helmet forum is intended to do.

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Mods please delete all my posts and pictures I posted on this thread, all of them from the beginning please.

 

I'm not trying to pick on you or cause a problem with this, but this is evident of the problems that can be caused here. I, you, or anyone can simply state a helmet is fake with or without proof - if you want a thread like this to work it has to have supporting evidence, trust me I've dealt in helmets, airborne, and Waffen SS items for 40 years and I can pretty well tell what's good and what's bad but without proof I would never expose something as fake unless I quantified it as my opinion.

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Well, again I have to ask, what made the 501st helmet from Kerstens fake. The threads on it have a lot of debate over the ways it was offered for sale, but there was no factual proof that anyone created it so to just state it's fake without proof then state "I'm out" when called on it has no purpose. Again I think you're on a slippery slope here and IMHO your best off to discuss or expose each helmet individually instead of this mass of conjecture, granted there are known fakes here but to try and lump this into one big thread versus individual discussions will only defeat what this helmet forum is intended to do.

 

Because Kerstens(aka jackconway) got banned from this forum for trying to sell that helmet here as a legit helmet that he admittedly faked.

 

As for the rest of your post, if you read the introduction, you will see that it is only known and verified fakes. Now if any of you folks have more time than I do and want to search for each one of these threads and copy the link in which these were discussed and send them to me, I will gladly post them with each one of the photo's. The purpose of the pinned thread is to give a one stop spot in which to visually see known fakes so as not to get burned. If anyone is unhappy with this, feel free to start a new thread designed in a better way and I will gladly delete this thread and pin yours.

 


"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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This is a great idea Bugme! I hope to see the thread pinned if it hasn't been already!

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

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Good thread... thanks for starting! These helmets are going to show up somewhere, someday... I'd rather be aware of them now than to be caught off guard.

 

Thanks!

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Maybe posting the evidential threads with a link along with the pictures would be helpful, if that's not already been done.


Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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This thread is to PROTECT younger collectors and older ones not knowledgeable about M1 painted helmets. Unless one has been in the " game" many years, IMHO you should observe and learn. Have seen countless fake helmets for years and years. SOS in the late 80- 90's had many many fakes, some you could smell the paint on. Observe ,listen, take notes and learn.


"The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him" G.K. Chesterton

"A people that values it's privileges above its principles will soon lose both" D.D. Eisenhower


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