mdk0911 Posted November 7, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 7, 2017 I have seen this shotgun for sale and I just don't think something is right - the metal looks to 'nice' compared to the wood - has a grey park finish - what think all? thx mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk0911 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share #2 Posted November 7, 2017 more pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk0911 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted November 7, 2017 more pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
268th C.A. Posted November 7, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 7, 2017 I dont like the finish JMO. Should be blued. Other than that a M1897 is going to have the typical bumps and bruises. I pick em up and give them the shake test, like a .45 to see if there a rattle trap. (worn out) price is always a big factor as well...if its cheap enough its still a M1897 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomorgan Posted November 7, 2017 Share #5 Posted November 7, 2017 I'm not expert by any means but I think it's a later rebuild from a standard 97 cut down. Looks re-parked to me and why the Full choke markings on the barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambo35 Posted November 7, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 7, 2017 Trench shotguns, Winchester T97's were the non-take down models? Is that correct? This one is a take down model. This one does not appear to have any ordnance or US markings. I think your example is a "put-together" example. Chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted November 7, 2017 Share #7 Posted November 7, 2017 They had both takedown and solid frames but there is nothing right about that guy. Serial range for WWI was 614,080-733,016 and WWII was 916,513 - 955,402. All '97's were originally blued. They didnt park guns until the Model 12's, Ca. 1,028,000. That finish looks sandblasted, not parkerized. Any parkerizedd Model '97 would have been redone anyhow. The choke marking would be "Choke". Lacking ordinance / US markings. Run, don't walk from that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk0911 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted November 7, 2017 thanks all that is what I thought!! this is in an auction this weekend and the bid price is $650 so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin6 Posted November 7, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 7, 2017 Looks like a reproduction heat shield and bayonet lug; no apparent rivets holding the two together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinb Posted November 7, 2017 Share #10 Posted November 7, 2017 The butt stock is wrong for a trench gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Military Guy Posted November 7, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 7, 2017 I'm not expert by any means but I think it's a later rebuild from a standard 97 cut down. Looks re-parked to me and why the Full choke markings on the barrel? The easiest way. Trench (and Riot) guns were NOT marked Full choke (since they were not full choke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrayGhost Posted November 7, 2017 Share #12 Posted November 7, 2017 If this were military, wouldn't this also have a US and Ordanance Bomb on the receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-EOD Posted November 9, 2017 Share #13 Posted November 9, 2017 I own several and this one is a complete fabrication. Just about everything possible is absolutely incorrect on this one. I would stay away from it unless they are giving it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyrax222 Posted November 10, 2017 Share #14 Posted November 10, 2017 Totally bogus humpers special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted November 10, 2017 Share #15 Posted November 10, 2017 Parts gun for sure. Not a military contract gun at all. Barrels were marked for a 2-3/4" chamber and marked "CYL" (for cylinder bore). all the WW1 shotguns were solid frame examples with a dark 'dipped blue' finish (the WW2 guns were charcoal blued IIRC)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. BARney Posted November 10, 2017 Share #16 Posted November 10, 2017 Concur with all that has been said above. Plus, they are no fun without ordnance markings anyhow!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted November 11, 2017 Share #17 Posted November 11, 2017 The buttstock sling swivel is incorrect for a trench gun. But, as gomorgan and US Military Guy pointed out, the clincher is the FULL marking on the barrel. A real trench gun would be marked CYL for cylinder bore, meaning no choke. This is without any doubt a cut-down sporting shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lsparks Posted February 6, 2018 Share #18 Posted February 6, 2018 Guys, allow me to ask some questions. I am looking at a 1897 Riot. Based on this thread, the good is a nice clear “US” on the left side of receiver. It is blue. It is marked CYL. The unknown: it has a sight bead. I do not recall seeing sling swivel(s). The worrisome: it’s serial places it manufactured in about 1921. COAs: it is a trench gun built in the interwar years and is legit. It is a legit aerial gunnery trainer, cut into a trench by the Gov’t before WWII. It is a “buy back” gun, a CIV gun bought by the Gov’t in the early days of WWII and cut into a trench. It is a fake. I don’t have any pics. The owner seems willing to go to Winchester and pay for a letter. That should tell us SOMETHING. What do you guys think? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Posted February 6, 2018 Share #19 Posted February 6, 2018 With utmost due respect, with no pictures, it's like getting a haircut over the phone. In today's age, pics are super-easy to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWS Posted February 6, 2018 Share #20 Posted February 6, 2018 To be rather blunt: Don't Buy! If you have to buy something, buy as many books as are currently available on U.S. Martial arms and read-study them until you know exactly what to look for BEFORE you buy anything! Try to look at as many documented 100% original guns as you can in person. A picture in a book will not "stick" in your mind near as well as looking at the real thing with your own eyes. This will take some time and lots of leg work at gun shows, military shows and/or museums. Until you can form a mental picture in your mind of what a particular gun should be technically and look like, resist the urge to buy anything! Not knowing before you buy is 100% your fault, not the seller's! I'm not trying to make this a rant, just motivate you to do your homework and avoid an expensive mistake. I've seen many more "fake" trench and riot guns over the years than real ones. It's just the reality of the market today. Good luck in your pursuit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin6 Posted February 6, 2018 Share #21 Posted February 6, 2018 There are several books out there that cover trench shotguns, one by Bruce Canfield that has been updated. If you are looking for information on the Winchester trench shotguns, you need this by Joe Poyer. It's been out of print for several years, and can get pricey but if you have patience you might find it on ebay for around $40. There's one right now on ebay for a BIN of $99. US Winchester Trench And Riot Guns And Other US Combat Shotguns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lsparks Posted February 7, 2018 Share #22 Posted February 7, 2018 With utmost due respect, with no pictures, it's like getting a haircut over the phone. In today's age, pics are super-easy to get. Who exactly are you talking to? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted February 18, 2018 Share #23 Posted February 18, 2018 Who exactly are you talking to? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk To you Im pretty sure. I have police marked riot gun, all the way over here in little old New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted February 18, 2018 Share #24 Posted February 18, 2018 My serial number is 688xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted February 18, 2018 Share #25 Posted February 18, 2018 They had both takedown and solid frames but there is nothing right about that guy. Serial range for WWI was 614,080-733,016 and WWII was 916,513 - 955,402. All '97's were originally blued. They didnt park guns until the Model 12's, Ca. 1,028,000. That finish looks sandblasted, not parkerized. Any parkerizedd Model '97 would have been redone anyhow. The choke marking would be "Choke". Lacking ordinance / US markings. Run, don't walk from that one... Where did you get your ww1 serial number range from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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