Dave G Posted November 6, 2008 Share #1 Posted November 6, 2008 As balloon pilot wings seem to be a hot topic lately here are some wings I've had in a drawer for a few years. The are 78mm or 3 1/16", pinback with what appears to be a poorly executed Orber stamp on the reverse. The feathering has quite a lot of detail. The pattern closely resembles #190 but without the "US" on the balloon on page 58 of Charles Fitzsimmons' book Thirty Years of U. S. Army Pilot Wings. I'm in the process of sorting through the pheriphery of my collection where I have little expertise to sort out the mights from the maybes. Best Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpl. Cleaver Posted November 6, 2008 Share #2 Posted November 6, 2008 I don't know anything about wings.... I thought it was a light bulb..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted November 6, 2008 You know, I never made that connection before, but now that you've pointed it out I'm not sure I can ever stop imagining it as a light bulb. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpl. Cleaver Posted November 6, 2008 Share #4 Posted November 6, 2008 Lol, now look at a jump wing and think about icecream in a cone with wings.... Thats what my mom thought it was when she was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted November 11, 2008 Share #5 Posted November 11, 2008 Any ideas as to if this is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted November 11, 2008 Thanks for bringing this back to near the top. The quality of the wing is quite good but the "smeared" Orber marking gives me some concern. Any help would be appreciated. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted November 11, 2008 Share #7 Posted November 11, 2008 Thanks for bringing this back to near the top. The quality of the wing is quite good but the "smeared" Orber marking gives me some concern. Any help would be appreciated. Dave Hi Dave, I lost one on ebay last night that had a STERLING mark in that same location in a circular pattern (which I missed by $5.00). I believe Orber made these but marked them only with the STERLING mark; I guess the circular stamping was to indicate that it was an Orber product The definition was very crisp in comparison to the the example you show. Maybe a wing nut will see this post and reply.....John....Chris.....Patrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted November 11, 2008 I looked at the wing you missed on eBay. In his description he says that his wing measures 3 1/8" and the pin opens to 60 degrees. I re-measured mine and it is just a shade over 3 1/6" and the pin opens a full 180 degrees. I don't know if the differences are significant but there you are. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 11, 2008 Share #9 Posted November 11, 2008 .....John....Chris.....Patrick. Steve, Dave, I wish I could help, but I actually know very little about post WW1 wings. John or Patrick will have to weigh in on these. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted November 11, 2008 Share #10 Posted November 11, 2008 Steve, Dave, I wish I could help, but I actually know very little about post WW1 wings. John or Patrick will have to weigh in on these. Chris These are not any good! Fake wings, IMHO. A believe that these are a series of knock-off balloon pilot wings that were made by some well known "con artist" who lived in Arizona or some such place. This kind of workmanship and "feathering" detail seems to have been part of his trademark. I think he was also renowned for making fake police/sheriff badges as well. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted November 11, 2008 Share #11 Posted November 11, 2008 Patrick your speaking of Mr. Paychex I assume. I did not know he did this type of wing. As I recall there is a thread about some of his work in WW1 wings. Dave could you post some additional shots to show the feathering details? Additionally was this die struck and zre the fittings hand attached? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted November 12, 2008 Share #12 Posted November 12, 2008 Patrick your speaking of Mr. Paychex I assume. I did not know he did this type of wing. As I recall there is a thread about some of his work in WW1 wings. Dave could you post some additional shots to show the feathering details? Additionally was this die struck and zre the fittings hand attached? Thanks Hi John, This is another guy I believe. I know a number of people who have said he was making stuff either in Arizona or maybe Colorado. He may have died, but he was making LOTS of stuff, like old time Western Sheriff badges, Car badges, watch fobs, etc. Lots of fake stuff, that is pretty good looking for the un-initiated. I have had this pattern wing in hand once or twice in the past, and it just hollers fake. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted November 12, 2008 Share #13 Posted November 12, 2008 One of these just sold form the BIG ebay collection sale... for 300+ (FYI) BTW Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted November 12, 2008 John, I'll be happy to provide additional pictures of the wing detail but I'm confused by your question about "are the fittings hand attached". The only thing attached to the wings are the lugs for the pin and catch, the rest of the wing is all one piece. Also, I'm an idiot when it comes to telling if something is die struck vs. cast. Is there a simple method for determining? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted November 12, 2008 Here's a hopefully better angle to see the wing detail. My camera doesn't have a proper macro setting so this is about as close as I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted November 13, 2008 Share #16 Posted November 13, 2008 John, I'll be happy to provide additional pictures of the wing detail but I'm confused by your question about "are the fittings hand attached". The only thing attached to the wings are the lugs for the pin and catch, the rest of the wing is all one piece. Also, I'm an idiot when it comes to telling if something is die struck vs. cast. Is there a simple method for determining? Dave Dave thanks for the extra photo if you can do the same for the reverse that would be great (same angle). As for a cast wing you would notice a lack of detail and little pits due to the inperfection of the casting process. I use a loupe for the close up inspections. As for the die strike process you will find the sheer marks on the outer edge. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share #17 Posted November 13, 2008 Thanks for the tips. Here's a shot of the reverse, again not of the greatest quality. Under strong magnification I can see extrusion marks on the edges and there is a rather sharp ridge along the reverse edge of the wing. No pitting or bubbling as indicative of casting on the reverse side. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted December 13, 2008 Share #18 Posted December 13, 2008 As balloon pilot wings seem to be a hot topic lately here are some wings I've had in a drawer for a few years. The are 78mm or 3 1/16", pinback with what appears to be a poorly executed Orber stamp on the reverse. The feathering has quite a lot of detail. The pattern closely resembles #190 but without the "US" on the balloon on page 58 of Charles Fitzsimmons' book Thirty Years of U. S. Army Pilot Wings. I'm in the process of sorting through the pheriphery of my collection where I have little expertise to sort out the mights from the maybes. Best Regards, Dave Dave, Here is an interesting and rather crude advertisement you should see. A fellow by the name of Pete Carlson use to ran it about 25/30 years ago. Make note of the fact that the outline of each wing badge was cut from a photograph and then pasted to a single sheet of paper before running a photocopy for the ad. This explains why the outline of the badges in the ad do not conform perfectly with the outline of your badge; however, draw your own conclusion as to whether or not your badge is the same as number #4 seen in the ad. Cheers, CliffP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share #19 Posted December 13, 2008 It would appear that the mystery is solved. The seller was careful to include the word "type" on each of the listings to avoid the more onerous term reproduction, I guess. I'm making the assumption he had a quantity of each example, thus he, or someone else commissioned the production of these wings. Coming late to the wing collecting party - the early 1980s or as I call it the "Russ Huff" era - I well remember the volume of fake wings hitting the market to accomodate the growing collector interest. This ad would just about synch up with that time period. My how time flies. Thanks to all for the input on this thread. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted December 13, 2008 Share #20 Posted December 13, 2008 As kid in the sixties, I recall the WWII veterans being avid collectors of a lot of things related to their war...as the vets were in their peak earning years, I suppose they were spending some of their excess income to pick up things they had wanted when they were kids. I couldn't touch a Luger then and still pay the rent...thankfully, no longer want one now and I suspect the same collecting pressures were focused on a number of military collecting interests then. Interesting perspective--thanks for posting that ad, Cliff. Paul S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted June 6, 2009 Share #21 Posted June 6, 2009 Here is a wing simlair to the one posted although slightly different in that this one has a raised sterling mark and what looks to be a 90 degree stop pin. Not sure if it is the picture but it has an odd bronze color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted June 8, 2009 Share #22 Posted June 8, 2009 Here is the obverse shot I forgot to post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none Posted June 8, 2009 Share #23 Posted June 8, 2009 Here is a wing simlair to the one posted although slightly different in that this one has a raised sterling mark and what looks to be a 90 degree stop pin. Not sure if it is the picture but it has an odd bronze color. When silver first tarnishes it gets that gold, bronze color. A polish would do that wing a lot of good. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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