Cpl (T) and PFC (P)

[Captainofthe7th]

On my grandfather's records, his most significant rank is Cpl (T) from 1954 and he was a PFC (P) in 1951. What does the (T) and (P) stand for? He was in Armd Cav when he was a Cpl and Infantry when he was a PFC.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

PS I may edit this/add a post if i look at the papers again.

[Manchu Warrior]

PFC= Private First Class Cpl T= Tech Corporal? Sorry you did not ask what the PFC stood for and I am not sure what the P stands for.

[Captainofthe7th]

I was thinking the T would be for Tech as the Technician Ranks were gone at that point and Spec were not created yet.

 

I didn't specify, I know what the ranks are, just not the P and T.

 

EDIT: "Cpl(T) 27 Jun 53" and "Private-2 (P) 12 May 1951"

 

Rob

[PATCHRAT]

quick thought how about T= temporary and P = Permanent

[El Bibliotecario]

A (P) after an officer's rank indicates they are on the promotion list for the next higher grade--*laff--somehow I doubt if this is the case here. In my military experience (whiich doesn't quite stretch back to the '50s) a 'temporary' corporal would be referred to as an acting corporal. A permanent PFC infers there are also acting PFCs, and I can't for the life of me think what purpose such an appointment would serve. Acting ranks are conferred to grant temporary authority--and a PFC ain't got any.

 

Hopefully some Korean-war era company clerk will read this post and clear up the mystery.

[Wailuna]

...how about T= temporary and P = Permanent...

Patchrat has it right. Link here to see an extended discussion on (T) vs. (P) in enlisted ranks during the Korean War.

[El Bibliotecario]

The link in the previous post is very informative. While I knew the army played such games with officers ( RA rank vs. AUS rank) I had no idea they did it with EM--or if I ever did know, I've forgotten. Thanks for that bit of enlightenment. *laff* Now I'm going to have to go out to the garage and see if my old EM promotion orders made that distinction.

[Wailuna]

,,,I'm going to have to go out to the garage and see if my old EM promotion orders made that distinction....

Yes, vintage enlisted promotion orders (late 1940s through 1960s) should show each initial promotion in rank as (T) for temporary. As I recall, "advancement" to (P) for permanent was strictly a function of the passage of time, which was simply recorded on the soldier's service record at the local personnel office. Another place to see this phenomenon in nature is on DD Form 214: In Item 3a (form ed. 1 Nov 55) or item 5a (form ed. 1 Jul 66).

[Captainofthe7th]

Thanks Wailuna! Excellent link. Although, I will point out that a chevron 3 up and 2 down is a Sergeant First Class, not Technical Sergeant (this was in the 1951 grade scale). I'm a nitpicker!

 

Thanks again,

 

Rob

[Wailuna]

Yes, good catch, Rob, (and good eyes!)

 

You are correct about Technical Sergeant not being in the Army rank structure in 1951. The title change from Technical Sergeant to Sergeant First Class occurred in 1948 and the fellow who posted his version of the rank chart on the other Forum got it wrong (link here and scroll to "03 July 2007").

 

As for being a "nitpicker" read this from USMF home page: "...share your knowledge and learn from others." If you believe your material is important and relevant, you are not being a nitpicker when you correct factual errors and omissions in the Forum. You are promoting accuracy and factual knowledge. Keep up the good work...and consider joining that other forum to share your knowledge there.

[Fixn Junk]

I realize this is an old topic but I am interested in the information that a couple of people provided a link to. My grandpa's DD214 lists his rank as Cpl(T). I assume the links are no good due to being old. If anyone has this info I'd like to take a look at it. 

[Linedoggie]

On 11/5/2008 at 8:28 PM, Manchu Warrior said:

PFC= Private First Class Cpl T= Tech Corporal? Sorry you did not ask what the PFC stood for and I am not sure what the P stands for.

P for promotable?

 

at one time I was listed as SP/4 (P)

[Fixn Junk]

The P would be for promotable. If I remember correctly, the promotable status meant you met the minimum time in service and time in grade to be able to start the process toward promotion. 

[edjperkins]

On 11/5/2008 at 8:23 PM, Captainofthe7th said:

On my grandfather's records, his most significant rank is Cpl (T) from 1954 and he was a PFC (P) in 1951. What does the (T) and (P) stand for? He was in Armd Cav when he was a Cpl and Infantry when he was a PFC.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

PS I may edit this/add a post if i look at the papers again.

The T mean temporary Rank.  The P mean permanent rank.  Often times in War, soldiers would receive temporary promotions to give them enough rank for a certain assignment.  It was suggested that the T might mean Tec Corporal, that is not the case.  That rank would be Tec5.  My dad in WWII held temporary Tec5 rank with a  permanaent rank of Pfc.