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Help with this Marine in Photo - Can he be in Army Engineers and Marines?


stratasfan
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Hi! This was posted as a photo of a Great-Grampa (which Mom never knew). We are sitting here trying to do the genealogy and I have a couple questions that I am hoping some pros on here might be able to help out with! He seems to be wearing a USMC device on his hat. However, below are his Military tombstone record and a 1905 Army Register of Enlistments which shows service in 1905. The tombstone shows service in the Great War, though.

 

So, can he have been in the USMC and the Engineers? Also, any idea as to when this photo could have been taken?

 

I know the name is different, but he did use multiple spellings and versions. This is him, I do know that.

 

Thanks for any help!

 

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Wow E, that is a fantastic photo. Quite a dashing gent. It is possible that he changed branches, but I'll leave that to the experts to theorize. Thank you for sharing.

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Isn't he? Yes, I am hoping that someone might be able to help date the photo by his very clear uniform, gun, badge, etc. Also, I don't know much about the branches back then. Could he have changed to the Engineers by the Great War?

 

I thought it was an amazing photo! Even to have the gun!

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I certainly think so. Speculation on my part: He could have originally enlisted in the Marines in the early 1900s, and served out his term of service. He then reenlists in the Army towards the end of WWI. This may explain the 10.5 month enlistment, which ended with an Honorable Discharge.

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Doyler - Hi! Thanks for the rifle info! For a total newbie in the line of military rifles, like myself - what is the "30-40"?

 

Wish it had included the bayonet in the photo. I love bayonets. ;)

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Would the Marines have been under that ARmy enlistment register? Or is that a whole other Army enlistment?

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30-40 is the caliber.The rifle is the Krag Jorgensen Pattern

 

Will add it was produced and in use til replaced by the Model1903 Springfield.

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OH, so would that mean it was used before 1902, or was the 1902 model used later? (Is that clear at all? ;) )

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OH, so would that mean it was used before 1902, or was the 1902 model used later? (Is that clear at all? ;) )

 

Ooops

 

Meant 1903 and corrected it.

 

THe Krag saw use up til then but I cant tell you when they were exchanged oir completely phased out in the Marine Corps.

 

The EGA on the Bell crown is an early pattern but could be worn over lapping periods.

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The Army guard units were using these rifles into the WW1 era, then they were also pulled and used for drill training of troops due to the shortage of M1903 and M1917 rifles during the war. Its not uncommon as well for there to be two branches of service. My father was in the Army in WW2 and went to the Air Force in 1947.

search Twelfth Engineers WW1 for some more information of the unit.

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Well, don't you think it is odd to have served in the USMC and then later to join the Army Engineers? Why wouldn't he have been back in the Marines? Assuming, that is, that the photo is from before his 1918 service.

 

Also, that 1905 enlistment/discharge record. . . it says he joins the Army on 20 May 1905 and is discharged on 8 Oct 1905. Under regiment it says something like "F.A. 7"

 

Isn't that rather short service?

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Hey Stratasfan, It is not too unusual for someone to switch services after they are discharged. I have a uniform from a vet who served in the Marines, was discharged in the Philippines in 1910 and a couple of days later enlisted into the Navy. Your relative may have served a hitch with the Army (1905) then joined the Marines and then for the War was either drafted or enlisted into the Army again.

 

The short 1905 enlistment may be due to medical reasons, or he was underage (and got caught), etc.

 

What is the name in the enlistment book? The unit he was assigned to was the 7th Field artillery.

 

BTW, Great Photo!

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Oh, grand! The name in the book is Orin A. Nevins. He was born March of 1881 (one place lists 1885, but it is actually 81. His name is Orin Alvin Nevins, but he would use Orin and Alvin and later go to Alvin O'Nevin (which he signed and used on his WWII Draft Registration card and military tombstone.

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Interesting. Assuming the Marine in the photo is Alvin O'Nevin (and the photo and documents / history aren't mixed up), he probably served as a Marine, got out, and as World War One was more than a year underway (for us Americans) he enlisted in the Army at the age of 37+ That's not all that unusual, especially for a military veteran who still wants to do his part.

 

The 12th Engineers was a Light Railway unit formed in St. Louis.

 

Here's a good history of the unit in WWI: https://armyhistory.org/12th-engineers-light-railway/

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Thanks! I'll look at that. I am trying now to trace the photo to the original poster, which can sometimes be hard online, as you post a photo and it tends to go all over! Glad it did, but I am really trying to pin it down now. I also sent in an FOIA request just now, so maybe I'll get some info.

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Hey Stratasfan, It is not too unusual for someone to switch services after they are discharged. I have a uniform from a vet who served in the Marines, was discharged in the Philippines in 1910 and a couple of days later enlisted into the Navy. Your relative may have served a hitch with the Army (1905) then joined the Marines and then for the War was either drafted or enlisted into the Army again.

 

The short 1905 enlistment may be due to medical reasons, or he was underage (and got caught), etc.

 

What is the name in the enlistment book? The unit he was assigned to was the 7th Field artillery.

 

BTW, Great Photo!

Just for clarification, that would be 7th Field Artillery Battery, not regiment.

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Hi, All! I heard back from the person who posted the photo, and it definitely is him. So, hopefully I'll get some info from my records request.

 

That is cool about being able to date the uniform. Sure is a handsome uniform, all-in-all! Thanks to all for the continued help! I really appreciate it all!

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  • 1 month later...

Hello- If nobody has looked at it, I have the regimental history of the 12 Engineers. The unit was formed in St Louis, and all the early members were railroaders. They embarked for foreign service on July 28, 1917. Early! Early! Was he a railroader and did he move around? The roster in the history lists him (I assume) in Company D as: O'Nevin, Alvin. Seems like an interesting fellow. I do have a camo Co. F 12 Eng. helmet.

Illinigander

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Oh many thanks! I did get another photo of him in his railroad uniform ( a little later than that USMC photo). He did work on the railway. That is so interesting about the unit really going after railroad guys! Is there any way you could post a photo of the entry in the regimental history and/or your helmet? Would love to see them! I am trying to figure out more of his service info, and will post what I dig up!

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The rifle in the photo is a Krag-Jorgensen rifle which to my knowledge had been almost entirely phased out of service well before the First World War. There are several internet forums dedicated to Krag-Jorgensen rifle collectors and experts. They may be able to give you a more precise date when that particular rifle was issued, especially since the distinctive rear sight is so clearly visible in the photo. I agree with other posters here that it would not at all be unusual for a prior service Marine to re-enlist in the Army, or vice-versa. Great photo.

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