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Help with unknown Disney squadron patch


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Fixbayonets!

I just picked up this squadron patch at a local antique store for $1. I figured it was probably a reproduction but the name written on the reverse got my attention, looks like it was gifted to someone in June of 1984. I searched his name and found his obit stating that he served in the AAF during WWII and that he was from my area. The patch has that old leather smell to it but the condition is almost too good to be true so I thought I would post it here. So my questions are - what squadron is this patch for and is there any chance that it is original? Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

 

Rob

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It looks real, though can't recall the unit. Somebody will know, but my fuzzy memory on this one is it is a stateside training squadron or field/base.

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Thanks for the info so far guys, glad to hear it looks to be original! Since the patch features an owl I figure it must be for some sort of night bombing squadron. He is also wearing a graduation cap so the idea that it is a stateside training squadron sounds right.

 

Rob

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With the spyglass it may be for an obs sq

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Dang, Johnny was one of the guys I was hoping that would know! On the positive side, I am not seeing any comments from tredhed or others that it is not a WW II patch. It is made like one, in a style often seen used by stateside units.

 

Rob, look at the back again at the writing. Could what you are thinking is a six for June of 1984, possible G/84? I am thinking that might not be a date, but a Class or Flight number.

 

My experience with this one, is seeing the design on something in a group with some other stuff, and thinking that was neat. I believe is was related to training, but I sadly don't recall more.

 

Guess/Speculation/Unsubstantiated thoughts/BS: From the design, the owl looks to represent knowledge, and the graduation cap a school or education. The bomb and spyglass, either observation & bombing, or navigation & bombing. Given the style of this patch, it is likely a design created fairly early in the war, and that would make me tip to observation & bombing...and I would not be surprised to eventually learn it was associated with a particular type of aircraft...maybe PBYs for example.

 

It also has the possibility of being a Disney design, which falls inline with the earlier in the war idea, stateside unit, and the representation of the various design elements...which all have similarities to those used in other patches done by the Studio.

 

Someone is going to know what this one is...

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For the life of me I could not figure out what was under his right wing, thanks for the confirmation on the spyglass Tredhed!

 

Unclegrumpy - I took a another look at the numbers written on the reverse and yes, the more I look at it the more it looks like G/84. All of your speculations sound very plausible, I hope someone is able to nail it down.

 

Thanks again for all of the help and the sharing of your expertise, what I first figured to be a repro has turned into an interesting find!

 

Rob

 

 

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I agree with most others that it is probably a training school patch. You'll find a lot of these in mint condition as someone purchased them, went off to their next assignment and never wore them.

 

The VT-31 insignia below as they are known as the Wise Owls. They are currently a training unit but I am not sure if their lineage goes back to WW2.

 

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Yes, this is a fun and interesting find!

 

How about this as an idea Rob...why don't you edit or ask a moderator to edit your thread title adding:

 

"Help with Unknown Disney Squadron Patch"

 

There are a several people that have a lot of knowledge about everything and anything the Disney Studios did. A lot of that work was for units that had very brief times of existence...some fading away before the Studio could even get their designs back to them. I don't actually know that this is a Disney patch, but the more I look at it, it looks to be. The point is to maybe draw somebody more knowledgeable into the conversation to tell me I am wrong...or better yet, solve this mystery for us.

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Tried looking up the name Daniel/Danny Pfug, which lead to a mention of him linked below in a Port Washington NY Library Historical pdf:

 

http://docplayer.net/23674416-Port-washington-public-library-oral-history-collection-aviation.html

 

Then looking at what was happening at Port Washington in WW II:

 

http://www.panam.org/war-years/374-marine-air-terminal-laguardia-2

 

And seeing:

 

"The luxurious Boeing-314's were joined by less glamorous military seaplanes such as the Martin PBM "Mariner" and Consolidated PB2Y "Coronado" many of which were manned by Pan Am crews flying in US Navy uniforms - for the airline had been "drafted" by the US Navy."

 

Still just sniffing around for clues, but the PBM & PB2Ys caught my attention...back a possible fit for the type of aircraft, a fit for where the veteran was from and had ties to, and to where the patch was found. A new wrinkle is adding the Navy into the mix, but maybe Pfug or someone he knew worked there before he went into the AAF.

 

Rob, I think you need to check in with the Port Washington Library and Historical Society...this might get even better for you...a rare patch...maybe a rare Disney patch...with a really neat local connection.

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Just thought of something...another clue...you never gave us a size measurement. Originally mentioning the AAF made me just assume 5", but the Navy more typically used 4" for their patches.

 

I think 4" would make it almost certainly Navy, though 5" would not close the door to it.

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Great research! I will see what I can find with the Port Washington Historical Society, maybe they can shed some light on him. Have you noticed that it looks like he wrote his name as Phlug on the back of the patch but the article you found spells his name Pflug? The obit I found online also spells his name Pflug.

 

The patch measures 5 inches.

 

Rob

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I noticed the spelling. Lots of explanations for that, but the most likely is he did not write his name on it. One possibility is he had to order or request the patch. The G/84 might be an employee or shift number...again lots of possibilities, but I think the name is misspelled.

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Doesn't look like a Disney Owl to me.

 

Yes, I just heard back from a Disney expert who agrees with you.

 

Rob

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I am not surprised, because Bob's a Disney expert too. :D

 

It took me a number of looks at this patch to consider it might be a possibility be a Disney design. I was basing that more on look of the bomb and spyglass than the owl...too bad it wasn't, that might have been a pathway to figure it out.

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Johnny Signor

I'm leaning towards it being a AAF training unit, possibly bombardment as the owl has one, and like others have posted the Grad cap also , there were lots of bombardment training bases around the US during WW2 , so I suggest trying to find info on them, possibly someone has a base grad book tht may show the emblem .....

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With the owl and the telescope, it might be from an observer group or squadron that flew the O-52 Owl.

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Patchcollector

Doesn't look like a Disney Owl to me.

 

+ 1

 

 

I think that the chances of this being a Disney design range between slim to none.If it is Disney related,it is a poor rendition.The Disney designed patches that I've seen are all accurate portrayals of the original artwork from the Studio.

 

Here is a Disney Owl sketch sheet I found on line for comparison.

 

 

 

Here is the great blog where I found the sketch:

 

 

 

http://andreasdeja.blogspot.com/2013/07/disney-owls.html

 

 

My guess is that it is a Bomber Training unit.

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Patchcollector

With the spyglass it may be for an obs sq

 

Not necessarily.

 

 

Bomb Squadrons patches have sometimes depicted "spyglass" usage.Here from my collection is an Aussie made 64th Bomb Squadron patch that I posted on the Forum some time back.

Many of the Bomb Squadrons also performed SAR tasks as secondary missions.Perhaps this is the reason for the telescope.

post-13386-0-94614400-1508630567_thumb.jpg

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Johnny Signor

Somewhere online ,sorry I don't recall where I saw it, theres a site that has School Garduation albums for the flight training schools etc, it may possibly be shown in one of those , if memory serves me , the site had where you could downlaod each book and go thru them .......................

 

Sorry I can't be more help with where it was .......

Johnny

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