Large group of WWI and 1920's era USAAC pilot

[pfrost]

Flight jackets, with insignia on back AND front.

[pfrost]

Some planes on the flight line. Seems like a fair amount of "meet and greet". Must have been some sight for depression-era Texas.

[pfrost]

Some planes on the flight line. Seems like a fair amount of "meet and greet". Must have been some sight for depression-era Texas.

[pfrost]

The caption says that the Field is so flat and barren, it is "perfect" for an airport!

 

The next photo, I believe says is of Major Spatz' plane.

[pfrost]

Last two photos of the grouping. I have a few odds and ends pics, but you all got the basic good stuff.

 

Another photo of the flight line and a nice photo of a couple of the pilots eating BBQ under the wings of a Monocoup. I love the old car (Model T?) in the background.

[Lee Ragan]

These photos appear to have been taken during a trip that the 11th bomb squadron made in the 1930's to Midland Field in Texas. Mostly small snapshots, some of the stuff is pretty interesting.

 

The first is a picture of Carl Spatz. The notation on the back says that this was taken after his record setting flight in the airplane "Question Mark"

 

A really great picture of the flight jackets being worn. They had large squadron insignia painted right on the back!

Midland Airfield became Midland Army Airfield later during WWII and was a Bombardier school. It's now Midland International Airport and lies halfway between Midland and Odessa, Texas. I live about 10 miles west of the place. It also is the location of the International Headquarters of the Commemorative (formerly Confederate) Air Force and their airpower heritage museum.

From photos I've seen other places, the Midland field was a popular refueling stop over for Army Air Corps planes during the 1930's and probably led to it becoming a training base during WWII.

These are some great photos from the old "brown shoe corps" days!

[278thgrandniece]

Last one for now. This is, I believe, the crashed plane of Alexander Olgivie and Bill Williams who were KIC on 11/29/1918. In fact, I have often wondered if Olgivie and Williams aren't the other two men in the previous photograph.

 

I have about a 1.2 dozen more WWI photos, then a slew of 1920's pics. I will post those later.

 

 

Hi!

First I would like to say you have some great photos here.

I was wondering though, why you thought that this might be Alexander's and Bill's aircraft.

There was a fire with that crash, it might be my eyes and the computer image, but I really don't see evidence of a fire. Would love to hear back from you.

 

Sincerely

Julie grandniece of Alexander Ogilvie

[pfrost]

Hello Julie, Grand niece of Alexander Olgivie,

 

The reason why I thought that this was their plane was that I believe that they were the only two to have died in a crash during the time that the 278th was in France (I dont have my book in front of me, but that is based on the information I got from the WWI book, WIngs of Eagles). Also, if you look, most of the fabric is gone from around the engine and cockpit, suggesting that perhaps the plane caught fire at that location. Other than that, I have no other information about the picture. Except for only a few captions on the back of 3-4 of the photos, most of the rest of the photos are without any further information. Of course, I could be wrong, but it just always seemed to me that that was the best explanation for this picture.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Patrick

[278thgrandniece]

Hello Julie, Grand niece of Alexander Olgivie,

 

The reason why I thought that this was their plane was that I believe that they were the only two to have died in a crash during the time that the 278th was in France (I dont have my book in front of me, but that is based on the information I got from the WWI book, WIngs of Eagles). Also, if you look, most of the fabric is gone from around the engine and cockpit, suggesting that perhaps the plane caught fire at that location. Other than that, I have no other information about the picture. Except for only a few captions on the back of 3-4 of the photos, most of the rest of the photos are without any further information. Of course, I could be wrong, but it just always seemed to me that that was the best explanation for this picture.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Patrick

 

Hello Patrick,

 

Thank you for your quick reply!

 

That makes sense to me and as I said, I couldn't tell, if there was fire damage or not even with my glasses on .

Alexander's and Bill's deaths were the only flying casualties of the 278th according to "Wings of Honor" by James J. Sloan, Jr. of which I do have a copy.

 

I am working on our family history and Alexander's story is one that I have been working on for the last few years.

 

I do apprecaite everyone that takes the time to post such things. It is making it easier for me to put together his story. As you know most of the information from National Archives for these men are gone. Keep up the good work in keeping our national history alive

 

Does Wings of Eagles contain much information on the 278th and its men? Is it something I should look into?

 

Julie

[pfrost]

Sorry, I meant Wings of Honor, not Wings of Eagles.

 

Patrick

 

 

Hello Patrick,

 

Thank you for your quick reply!

 

That makes sense to me and as I said, I couldn't tell, if there was fire damage or not even with my glasses on .

Alexander's and Bill's deaths were the only flying casualties of the 278th according to "Wings of Honor" by James J. Sloan, Jr. of which I do have a copy.

 

I am working on our family history and Alexander's story is one that I have been working on for the last few years.

 

I do apprecaite everyone that takes the time to post such things. It is making it easier for me to put together his story. As you know most of the information from National Archives for these men are gone. Keep up the good work in keeping our national history alive

 

Does Wings of Eagles contain much information on the 278th and its men? Is it something I should look into?

 

Julie

[binthere]

This is a great site, and I'd like to thank pfrost for the great pics, and thank Julie for turning me on to this site.

 

My grandfather was crew chief on no. 14 machine of the 278th Squadron, and I'm in the process of pulling his diary and some taped inteviews of his into a memoir of sorts. If you don't mind, pfrost, I can perhaps add some info to your pics?

 

The photo of the officers on board the troop transport was probably taken on the trip back stateside. I figure this for these reasons: 1) their shoulder patch is that of the Third Army. On the trip to France they would not have been assigned to an Army, and the Third hadn't even been formed yet. The 278th was initially assigned to the 2nd Army in Sept/Oct, then later transferred to the Third Army for occupation duties in Germany. 2) The dapper, serious officer in the center is CPT Heisen, Squadron CO. He wasn't appointed CO until he transferred in, in Sept 1918 (he came to France in a different Squadron). Here's a good link to a page on him:

 

http://www.dmairfield.com/people/heisen_hn/index.html

 

The picture of the R34 was probably taken at Camp Mills, Long Island, New York, which was the reception camp for the 278th when it returned in 1919. The site above has the full squadron photo showing the R34. My grandfather's diary shows him mustering out at Camp Mills that week, and the Heisen site confirms it.

 

The picture of the 278th's airfield from the air probably shows the Toul airfield, to which the Squadron moved on the day of the Armistice. Prior to that they were stationed at the Autreville aerodrome, but if my grandfather's diary is to be believed, that was tucked into the woods and the hangers and buildings were heavily camoflaged. The third aerodrome that the 278th occupied was right on the banks of the Rhine at Sinzig, Germany - but since the Rhine isn't visible in this photo, it can't be that aerodrome.

 

As for the German aircraft, I can't say for sure, but I suspect they may have been on the Sinzig, Germany aerodrome. Heisen's web page notes the CO got a lot of flying time in foreign aircraft while on occupation duty. It speculates that one of his duties was to fly and evaluate the German planes.

 

As to the crashed plane, my grandfather's diary records more than the sketchy files do. He mentions six crashes that totalled the 278th's planes involved. In addition to Julie's relative and his observer, 2 other pilots of the 278th were killed in flying accidents (one while flying a plane from another squadron). In addition, one of the 278th's planes that crashed killed the pilot - who was visiting from a pursuit squadron and was taking a DH-4 for a spin. In the remaining crashes, the aircrew were injured but survived (including my grandfather whose plane crashed as they were deploying from Autreville to Toul).

 

Out of a Squadron's complement of 18 aircraft, at least six were destroyed in flying accidents - and this did not include combat. I guess they earned their extra flight pay back then.

 

Hope this helps somewhat. Again, let me thank you for sharing a great collection.

 

I'd like to include some of these in the memoir I'm putting together. It's a personal thing for the friends and family and not a commercial deal. How do I go about requesting your permission, and crediting you properly if you agree?

[pfrost]

This is a great site, and I'd like to thank pfrost for the great pics, and thank Julie for turning me on to this site.

 

My grandfather was crew chief on no. 14 machine of the 278th Squadron, and I'm in the process of pulling his diary and some taped inteviews of his into a memoir of sorts. If you don't mind, pfrost, I can perhaps add some info to your pics?

 

The photo of the officers on board the troop transport was probably taken on the trip back stateside. I figure this for these reasons: 1) their shoulder patch is that of the Third Army. On the trip to France they would not have been assigned to an Army, and the Third hadn't even been formed yet. The 278th was initially assigned to the 2nd Army in Sept/Oct, then later transferred to the Third Army for occupation duties in Germany. 2) The dapper, serious officer in the center is CPT Heisen, Squadron CO. He wasn't appointed CO until he transferred in, in Sept 1918 (he came to France in a different Squadron). Here's a good link to a page on him:

 

http://www.dmairfield.com/people/heisen_hn/index.html

 

The picture of the R34 was probably taken at Camp Mills, Long Island, New York, which was the reception camp for the 278th when it returned in 1919. The site above has the full squadron photo showing the R34. My grandfather's diary shows him mustering out at Camp Mills that week, and the Heisen site confirms it.

 

The picture of the 278th's airfield from the air probably shows the Toul airfield, to which the Squadron moved on the day of the Armistice. Prior to that they were stationed at the Autreville aerodrome, but if my grandfather's diary is to be believed, that was tucked into the woods and the hangers and buildings were heavily camoflaged. The third aerodrome that the 278th occupied was right on the banks of the Rhine at Sinzig, Germany - but since the Rhine isn't visible in this photo, it can't be that aerodrome.

 

As for the German aircraft, I can't say for sure, but I suspect they may have been on the Sinzig, Germany aerodrome. Heisen's web page notes the CO got a lot of flying time in foreign aircraft while on occupation duty. It speculates that one of his duties was to fly and evaluate the German planes.

 

As to the crashed plane, my grandfather's diary records more than the sketchy files do. He mentions six crashes that totalled the 278th's planes involved. In addition to Julie's relative and his observer, 2 other pilots of the 278th were killed in flying accidents (one while flying a plane from another squadron). In addition, one of the 278th's planes that crashed killed the pilot - who was visiting from a pursuit squadron and was taking a DH-4 for a spin. In the remaining crashes, the aircrew were injured but survived (including my grandfather whose plane crashed as they were deploying from Autreville to Toul).

 

Out of a Squadron's complement of 18 aircraft, at least six were destroyed in flying accidents - and this did not include combat. I guess they earned their extra flight pay back then.

 

Hope this helps somewhat. Again, let me thank you for sharing a great collection.

 

I'd like to include some of these in the memoir I'm putting together. It's a personal thing for the friends and family and not a commercial deal. How do I go about requesting your permission, and crediting you properly if you agree?

 

Sure, feel free to use what you need. More than happy to help. If you want, you can simply credit them to the Patrick Frost collection.

 

Best regards

 

Patrick

[278thgrandniece]

Sorry, I meant Wings of Honor, not Wings of Eagles.

 

Patrick

 

 

Patrick thank you anyhow

Happens to the best of us!

 

Julie

[Bluehawk]

Last one for now. This is, I believe, the crashed plane of Alexander Olgivie and Bill Williams who were KIC on 11/29/1918. In fact, I have often wondered if Olgivie and Williams aren't the other two men in the previous photograph.

 

I have about a 1.2 dozen more WWI photos, then a slew of 1920's pics. I will post those later.

Well... the struts do seem quite sturdy anyhow!

[pfrost]

What do you think, is the pilot on the far right is Alexander Olgivie? The Lt Sloan is the pilot in the middle. The picture of Olgivie is from his grand niece. I think the may be the same, what do you guys think? Even the wings look similar.

 

Patrick

[bigredone]

German D7 fighters. They were specified in the peace treaty as having to be destroyed. Many were taken home for military museums, which is why there are several still in museums.

 

Probably not the case here but enemy planes were captured and used by both sides. Richtofen used captured sopwith engines in his fighter.

 

Some captured German planes?

[278thgrandniece]

What do you think, is the pilot on the far right is Alexander Olgivie? The Lt Sloan is the pilot in the middle. The picture of Olgivie is from his grand niece. I think the may be the same, what do you guys think? Even the wings look similar.

 

Patrick

 

 

Hummmm could be maybe

[278thgrandniece]

What do you think, is the pilot on the far right is Alexander Olgivie? The Lt Sloan is the pilot in the middle. The picture of Olgivie is from his grand niece. I think the may be the same, what do you guys think? Even the wings look similar.

 

Patrick

 

Here is another photo of Alexander. I am not sure if that is him or not. It sure could be. Although the young man in you're photo looks a bit heaver built to me.

 

 

Wish I had more to compare with.

 

Julie

[binthere]

Sure, feel free to use what you need. More than happy to help. If you want, you can simply credit them to the Patrick Frost collection.

 

Best regards

 

Patrick

 

I shall. Thank you very much.

[willycrash]

Hello. Found this forum while googling stuff about the 278th. Trying to figure out or pin down my grandfather's history with this unit. sadly, there is some uncertainty as to what he actually did. his paperwork showed a rank of second Lt. Engr. which I took to be engineer or possibly engraver since it is said that he was involved in developing photos. however, my father (now deceased) insisted that he(our grandfather Robert B. Rowe)was a pilot. My grandmother kept a scrap book which has some cool stuff in it, but nothing to indicate what he actually did in france at Toul. Interestingly, the large photo of pilots on another thread here shows a guy who looks a whole lot like photos of our grandfather. in any case, I was interested to see the owl and spyglass motif as I have in my possession a example of this on green canvas that grandfather cut from a crashed plane. I also have a altimeter, clock and entire propleller hub he shipped home. can't help but wonder if any of these came off one of the wrecks in these photos. In any case any help in finding info on this unit and especially info on individuals such as my grandfather would be appreciated.

 

Wm Rowe

[cthomas]

El Senor Frost...I have A LOT I can add to this thread. You've already seen the one I started on Owen G Williams who was an observer with the 278th. He also served in photo section #3. I've got many pics of that machine named "Margaret". A few of the photos you've posted here I also have further ID on. Will follow up when I can.

Very fascinating grouping of images you've got there. Maybe we can help each other out with IDing some of these pics.

 

-Chuck

[cthomas]

Last one for now. This is, I believe, the crashed plane of Alexander Olgivie and Bill Williams who were KIC on 11/29/1918. In fact, I have often wondered if Olgivie and Williams aren't the other two men in the previous photograph.

 

I have about a 1.2 dozen more WWI photos, then a slew of 1920's pics. I will post those later.

 

 

Here's another angle of this crashed bird. I don't think there's a description about it on back. Nor do I remember reading a passage in Williams' diary about it. I betcha I have pics of Sloan in the Williams grouping. Just need to wade through the piles...

 

It was very exciting for me to see this thread. It just may help me with all the unknowns that may pop up in my research of Williams' photographic record.

 

-Chuck

PS Thanks to the other angle of this crashed bird you posted, I now have a possible ID on this image I'm posting here. Man, gotta love it!

[cthomas]

Also a neat picture of the 278th aerodrome from the air.

 

A picture of Sloan in flight.

 

 

One more ID for ya....

 

This is not Sloan in flight. The pilot you see here was Lt. Ponlin & the person who took this picture is none other than Owen G. Williams himself. He writes " Lt. Ponlin over airfield Toul, France April 1919 I took this picture"

 

Great photo! It's been one of my favorites from the Williams grouping

 

-Chuck

[JLENG]

Does anyone know where Mr Sloan was from? I found this photo of him this afternoon in an antique store buried in a bin of old photos. I was going to post it in the wings section to see if anyone knew who it was when I ran across this thread. John

 

[pfrost]

El Senor Frost...I have A LOT I can add to this thread. You've already seen the one I started on Owen G Williams who was an observer with the 278th. He also served in photo section #3. I've got many pics of that machine named "Margaret". A few of the photos you've posted here I also have further ID on. Will follow up when I can.

Very fascinating grouping of images you've got there. Maybe we can help each other out with IDing some of these pics.

 

-Chuck

 

 

Howdy, I missed the replies to this thread. To cool! These photos all came out of a plastic bag from a flea market in Los Angeles. I think the guy told me he had found them out of an estate sale, but I can't recall where. I don't think it was from California.

 

Patrick