RDUNE Posted January 22, 2021 Share #26 Posted January 22, 2021 Just got this one from a picker. C.S.C. No. 36910 to Otto L. Bunte, U.S.S. Conyngham. I Have not had a chance to do any research on him yet. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweazy21 Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share #27 Posted February 27, 2021 Just did another update adding another 45 numbers with names. Since i now have a page on my site dedicated to this list, ill proved a link below. If you have some that i do not have, feel free to reply to this thread or message me. Updated list is available herehttps://militariaofthepast.weebly.com/continuous-service-certificate-list.htmlSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted February 27, 2021 Share #28 Posted February 27, 2021 "18 hours ago, Sweazy21 said: CSC 8515? Dated 1901? "So the medal that I mentioned earlier belonged to James A Douglass. He holds CSC 8521 and received a good conduct on February 16, 1895. There’s also Henry M Brennan who holds CSC 8522 who received a good conduct September 19, 1898. I do not have information on when they enlisted however. So between the year Arielbridge has of 1885 is only a few years earlier of what I was thinking. Although CSC numbers do not really correspond with enlistment dates, they can give you somewhat of a rough idea imo. who received a good conduct September 19, 1898. I do not have information on when they enlisted however. So between the year Arielbridge has of 1885 is only a few years earlier of what I was thinking. Although CSC numbers do not really correspond with enlistment dates, they can give you somewhat of a rough idea imo." Sweazy, BZ for literally "doing yeoman's work" with the CSC# list here and on your website. A lot of talking heads throw around that phrase without a clue what a yeoman does (like the "wheelhouse" one in vogue with the Media now) but this really is yeoman's work. CSC #s are great. So, the two consecutive examples you give above: Douglass James Angus -- [Service Number] 001355545, [Date of Enlistment] 01/18/1886 CSC # 8521 Brennan Henry Mitchell -- [Service Number] 001752953, [Date of Enlistment] 01/13/1880 CSC # 8522 These two really illustrate a few principles of CSC# sequencing quite nicely and remove some of the enigma. The CSC# does not correlate to when the sailor was first awarded the NGCM, It corresponds to when he first enlisted and when he applied for the CSC#. A sailor could apply for a CSC# at the end of their first year 3-year enlistment if they reenlisted or on a subsequent reenlistment. It was not automatically given upon the first reenlistment. The other factor is back then, a sailor needed 6 years’ good and faithful service and recommendation by their CO to be awarded the GCM at the end of an enlistment. Brannan first enlisted as a 3rd class boy on 1/13/1880 when he was 16. However, he didn’t apply for and receive his CSC #8522 until January 24, 1889 when he reenlisted at New York, NY, at the end of his 3rd 3-year enlistment, e.g., after 9 years’ service. And Brennan didn’t get his GCM until 9/19/98, 9 years later, and after he had been in the Navy 18 years. Douglass first enlisted in the Navy in January 1886. On January 19, 1889, he reenlisted at Boston, after the end of his first 3-year enlistment and applied for his CSC # then, which was his the soonest he could apply. He was given CSC# 8522, but he still had to do another 3 years before he would be eligible for a GCM. So, Brannan and Douglass have CSC #s that are consecutive, because each was given their CSC # in January 1889-- but neither got their first NGCM for another 9 and 6 years, respectively. So let’s look at the first one, e.g., lowest CSC# on your list, Theodore Gunther, CSC# 428, has GCM planchet date 5/8/1874. He first enlisted on November 4, 1863 as a first-class boy at NY, NY. He received the GCM you have (or have documented) in 1874 after serving for 11 years when he was 32 years old. But he has a low # CSC due to when he first enlisted. He was still in after 20 years, when he again reenlisted when he was 41. The first reenlistment that mentions a CSC# for him (but does not have it recorded) is his reenlistment on 8/28/77. Gunther Theodore -- [Date of Birth] 01/05/1842, [Service Number] 001958286, [Date of Enlistment] 09/21/1883 Second on your list, George August, CSC# 604 with GCM planchet date 2/7/1872, also got his good cookie after 11 years. August first enlisted in 1861, two years before Gunther, but Brennan has a lower number. August George -- [Service Number] 001273049, [Date of Enlistment] 06/17/1861 So, while it’s fairly consistent, it’s far from precises. All we can deduce is that perhaps Gunther signed his Continuous Service Contract before George August, although August first enlisted two years before Gunther. I don't know the date when the Navy first began issuing CSC #s, but I believe it was after the Civil War in the early 1870s, so there was probably an initial backlog of many given out. And the records have errors, like any records as far as how many years of prior service a man might have had. Here’s a couple more you can add to your list. Willis Kenyon has CSC # 3907, first enlisted about May 1876, the below represents a third reenlistment when he got his GCM after 7 years total service for his first two enlistment. Remember, back then they needed to do 6 years continuous service minimum to be awarded a good cookie. So you can see, a big jump in CSC#s from a man enlisting in 1863 to one enlisting 13 years later. Kenyon Willis -- [Date of Birth] 08/23/1859, [Service Number] 001861465, [Date of Enlistment] 09/19/1883 As a very consistent data point, another man who also first enlisted in May 1876, same month as Kenyon, and was also awarded his GCM at the end of his second enlistment and 7 years service in November 1883, has a CSC # that is less than 15 numbers higher than Kenyon’s. Here's another couple for your list- Francis W. Noe first enlisted about September 1880, so this was his second enlistment referenced below, and while he received CSC# 5442 in September 1883 after honorable discharge from his first enlistment he was not yet eligible for a GCM. Noe Francis W -- [Date of Birth] 06/26/1862, [Service Number] 001567204, [Date of Enlistment] 09/20/1883 That actually squares pretty well with a man on your list with CSC # 5468 (within 24 numbers) who enlisted a month before Noe, although his number is a bit higher: Erkson John -- [Service Number] 001449083, [Date of Enlistment] 08/01/1880 So, the comparative data points for how CSC numbers sort out, is when the sailor first enlisted and when he signed his Continuous Service Contract, not the planchet date (first award) of their GCM, which for many came years after the earliest they could have been awarded a NGCM, after 6 years’ service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmedalman Posted March 14, 2021 Share #29 Posted March 14, 2021 On 2/26/2021 at 9:56 PM, Sweazy21 said: Just did another update adding another 45 numbers with names. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk From what I have learned, the letter A indicates a person who enlisted under minority as an apprentice. So, if there is just the letter A in the column for the CSC number, the person is in their first enlistment. The S.G. indicates a person qualified as a Seaman Gunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweazy21 Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share #30 Posted March 14, 2021 From what I have learned, the letter A indicates a person who enlisted under minority as an apprentice. So, if there is just the letter A in the column for the CSC number, the person is in their first enlistment. The S.G. indicates a person qualified as a Seaman Gunner. Interesting, where did you find this information?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmedalman Posted March 14, 2021 Share #31 Posted March 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Sweazy21 said: Interesting, where did you find this information? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The info on the A and S.G. come from the instructions on the first page of the rolls. The names are extracted from copies of the June 1898 Raleigh roll and the the June 1899 Nashville roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweazy21 Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share #32 Posted March 14, 2021 The info on the A and S.G. come from the instructions on the first page of the rolls. The names are extracted from copies of the June 1898 Raleigh roll and the the June 1899 Nashville roll.Yes, but where did the rolls come from? Ancestry, national archives or other?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted March 14, 2021 Share #33 Posted March 14, 2021 Great work, medalman on those rolls and sweazy for keeping this list updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmedalman Posted March 14, 2021 Share #34 Posted March 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Sweazy21 said: Yes, but where did the rolls come from? Ancestry, national archives or other? The rolls are photocopies of the originals on microfiche at the National Archives. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 hours ago, Sweazy21 said: Yes, but where did the rolls come from? Ancestry, national archives or other? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk On 2/26/2021 at 9:56 PM, Sweazy21 said: Just did another update adding another 45 numbers with names. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Adamson Edwin 9979 Raleigh June 1898 roll Akesson Paulus 9367 Raleigh June 1898 roll Andersson Adolf 12092 Raleigh June 1898 roll Andy Emil 12520 Raleigh June 1898 roll Borg Carl Jon 12356 Raleigh June 1898 roll Bryan Benjamin H. 6484 Raleigh June 1898 roll Bradbury Daniel 11931 Raleigh June 1898 roll Baxter David 12586 Raleigh June 1898 roll Berlin Your Karl 10850 Raleigh June 1898 roll Duffy James 12369 Raleigh June 1898 roll Daughtry Issac 9312 Raleigh June 1898 roll Doyle Peter 12124 Raleigh June 1898 roll Eason T homas 9457 Raleigh June 1898 roll Flanagan Edward 12533 Raleigh June 1898 roll Foley Bartley 10916 Raleigh June 1898 roll Gustavesen Johann 11550 Raleigh June 1898 roll Gonnet Pierre 12445 Raleigh June 1898 roll Gensler Lawrence 11954 Raleigh June 1898 roll Hansen Max 7480 Raleigh June 1898 roll Harvey William John 10971 Raleigh June 1898 roll Hanlon Patrick 10259 Raleigh June 1898 roll Holub Joseph 9363 Raleigh June 1898 roll Henry George 6530 Raleigh June 1898 roll Lynch Michel J. 9495 Raleigh June 1898 roll Larson John 12565 Raleigh June 1898 roll Lentz Percy J. A.S.G. 9439 Raleigh June 1898 roll Mahoney John 12399 Raleigh June 1898 roll Mattson Axel 12579 Raleigh June 1898 roll Moritz Max 12604 Raleigh June 1898 roll Murphey William B. A. 12503 Raleigh June 1898 roll McCarthy Edward J. A. 12538 Raleigh June 1898 roll Nilssen Olaf 9361 Raleigh June 1898 roll Nelson Christen A. 12606 Raleigh June 1898 roll Norcott Edward J. A. 13027 Raleigh June 1898 roll O'Brien William 5915 Raleigh June 1898 roll Phillips Ralph W. A. 10184 Raleigh June 1898 roll Price George H. 12107 Raleigh June 1898 roll Phillips James H. 12290 Raleigh June 1898 roll Prime Charles 5891 Raleigh June 1898 roll Quinn James C. 10265 Raleigh June 1898 roll Ryan Stephan A. 12306 Raleigh June 1898 roll Smith Frederick 8962 Raleigh June 1898 roll Sanborn Stephen H. 12042 Raleigh June 1898 roll Smith Henry 10926 Raleigh June 1898 roll Smith James 12502 Raleigh June 1898 roll Tejada Jose J. 10826 Raleigh June 1898 roll Trigger Daniel 10396 Raleigh June 1898 roll Tracy Stephen 10441 Raleigh June 1898 roll Thompson William A. 9542 Raleigh June 1898 roll Way Louis F. A. 12488 Raleigh June 1898 roll Wormald Robert 12449 Raleigh June 1898 roll White Stephen 12331 Raleigh June 1898 roll Warner Benjamin 12080 Raleigh June 1898 roll Williams Burray 6630 Raleigh June 1898 roll Wetzel William 10270 Raleigh June 1898 roll Walsh George F. A. 10297 Raleigh June 1898 roll Alexander Franklin Edwin 12896 Nashville June 1899 roll Albrecht Henry A. 12544 Nashville June 1899 roll Barr Thomas George A. 12508 Nashville June 1899 roll Beyer Albert 6289 Nashville June 1899 roll Bratten William G. 9428 Nashville June 1899 roll Burges Peter B. 9369 Nashville June 1899 roll Berretti Pilad 10383 Nashville June 1899 roll Brown George A.S.G. 12491 Nashville June 1899 roll Baker Benjamin F. 9903 Nashville June 1899 roll Brown Frank 8564 Nashville June 1899 roll Cooper William Henry 12743 Nashville June 1899 roll Cloughley James 12739 Nashville June 1899 roll Casey Martin 7894 Nashville June 1899 roll Clancy Martin Joseph 9224 Nashville June 1899 roll Durney Austin Joseph 12800 Nashville June 1899 roll Dunlop William 10377 Nashville June 1899 roll Diamond Daniel Patric 10901 Nashville June 1899 roll Dierker William Frederick 13035 Nashville June 1899 roll Dillon Maurice 5892 Nashville June 1899 roll Garvey Frank 10959 Nashville June 1899 roll Hoban Thomas 13164 Nashville June 1899 roll Hinton Frank 8155 Nashville June 1899 roll Hashimoto Yorchi 12892 Nashville June 1899 roll Henderson Walter 8323 Nashville June 1899 roll Jackson George Soloman A. 12790 Nashville June 1899 roll Kenna Daniel 13054 Nashville June 1899 roll Lundun Charles 10619 Nashville June 1899 roll Laude Paul 5949 Nashville June 1899 roll Moore Thomas A. (no number follows) Nashville June 1899 roll Meyer Louis A. 9706 Nashville June 1899 roll Maginnis William Herman 12717 Nashville June 1899 roll Morton Andrew Bartlett 6383 Nashville June 1899 roll Melvin Mark 12763 Nashville June 1899 roll Middleton Benjamin P. A.S.G. 10713 Nashville June 1899 roll Mullins Denis 11803 Nashville June 1899 roll Mallia Michael 9724 Nashville June 1899 roll McClennan John Joseph 11174 Nashville June 1899 roll Noonan Maurice 8883 Nashville June 1899 roll Nolan Martin 10893 Nashville June 1899 roll Shanahan John A.S.G. 10583 Nashville June 1899 roll Scholl William 10530 Nashville June 1899 roll Thompson John 12749 Nashville June 1899 roll Van Etten Hudson A. (no number follows) Nashville June 1899 roll Wells Samuel W. 8770 Nashville June 1899 roll Wirtz Henry James 8854 Nashville June 1899 roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweazy21 Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share #35 Posted July 6, 2021 Hello, been awhile since I posted, but I collect US Navy medals roughly 1898 to just after WW1. I am still trying to educate myself and have a couple questions. Question: I see Sweazy21 has on his GCM list a sailor who enlisted 1/16/1894 and was issued a Continuous Service certificate of #12332. I purchased 2 loose clasps on a length of old ribbon without medal, having C.S.C. # 12491. Can I understand from this my man enlisted in 1894 ? I am assuming these certificates were issued sequentially, with no regard to location of enlistment, etc. My 2nd question, is there anyway to find out who this #12491 was issued to ? The 2 clasps are Montana 5-27-1912, and Kearsarge 5-27-1916. The clasps came with a Phillipine Insurrection medal with number 2195. I know there is a Navy roll for this medal but can’t get anything on that number from the OMSA online rolls. Anyone know who #2195 belonged to ? O.k. I’ll shut up now. many thanks Rob. I’ve been a little behind, but just now going through and working on my list again. Tonight I was adding the nearly 100 numbers that usmedalman had shared in March. While I was going through those numbers I realized that yours, 12491 was on the list. I did not look into him but his name is George Brown. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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