WW1 American Adrian Helmet for discussion

[Burning Hazard]

9 hours ago, Croix de Guerre said:

I am going to weigh in on this helmet device.  I exclusively collect American Field Service material and have done more than my fair share of studying the regiments of the 92nd Division, the Norton-Harjes ambulance units and the sections of the American Red Cross in Italy.  In 20+ years of research I have never seen a documented photograph of any American soldier or volunteer wearing this helmet device.  Moreover I have never seen a documented version that is attributed to a group of American artifacts.  These helmet devices seem to show up only in Europe.  You can create whatever scenario you wish to explain this but until I see a helmet such as this come out of a trunk group ID'd to an American, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.  I would be more than happy to eat my words if someone can show my a period photo of an American wearing this helmet device.  

 

Did a quick google search and came up with a picture of one in wear.

 

Source: https://alexanderandsonsrestorations.com/americans-french-helmets-enigma-american-adrian/

 

Some insignia is scarce and very hard to find pictures of; new technologies now are restoring WWI and WWII footage to HD quality so I'm certain more will be found soon. 

 

Pat

 

[Croix de Guerre]

4 minutes ago, Burning Hazard said:

That is not the same insignia.  That is the "Shield and Wreath" insignia of which there is ample documentation.  I am referring to the Eagle and Shield insignia that normally shows up for sale in Europe.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, Burning Hazard said:

Did a quick google search and came up with a picture of one in wear.

 

Source: https://alexanderandsonsrestorations.com/americans-french-helmets-enigma-american-adrian/

 

Some insignia is scarce and very hard to find pictures of; new technologies now are restoring WWI and WWII footage to HD quality so I'm certain more will be found soon. 

 

Pat

 

 

[Croix de Guerre]

The theory regarding the "Wreath and Shield" insignia was that it came out in 1917 during the period in which the United States was entering the war (April 1917) and we did not have a steel helmet.  There was some degree of competition between the British Brodie design and the French Adrian design as the manufactures of these helmets stood to make a lot to money depending on which style the US military chose to adopt.  At the same time in the summer of 1917, now that American had entered the war and we were no longer neutral, there was no legal impediment to Americans already in France and those now arriving as volunteers with the various American ambulance services from taking a more proactive, belligerent role in the war effort.  The French military  approached the Directors of the American Field Service and the Norton-Harjes ambulance services with the proposal that instead of promoting ambulance sections, they now focus their attention to primarily recruiting transportation units.  The AFS acquiesced while the Norton-Harjes Formations declined.  Thus hundreds of newly arriving American ambulance volunteers were shuttled off to drive camion supply trucks for the French, thereby freeing up the older French men usually assigned to this service, to return to the factories and fields where they were needed.  These American camion sections were grouped into an organization called the "Reserve Mallet", named after the French Col. in charge.  The official designation was "T.M.U. or Transporté Militare Unis".  

 

Almost every single documented Adrian helmet that I am aware of that is emblazoned with the "Wreath and Shield" helmet device is associated with one of these "T.M.U." sections.  Why?  I don't know.  Did the American Field Service place the order for these helmet devices?  Did some enterprising Adrian helmet manufacturing company produce them to make their helmets more attractive to prospective American quartermasters?  Again, I don't know but keep in mind that we are talking about a very short period of time from say April-May 1917 until November 1917 when all of the American volunteer organizations were being absorbed by the U.S. Army.  During this seven month time period the US Army had decided to adopt the British Brodie helmet and therefore any helmet device specifically manufactured for use on the French Adrian helmet became needless.  

 

The four regiments of black Americans that began to arrive independently from the United States, in 1917 and 1918 that were "loaned" to the French, (the 369th, 370th, 371st and 372nd) were issued French weapons and accouterments to varying degrees.  But they were issued equipment from the supply sources of the French division they were attached to.   There is some conjecture that a very limited number of these "Wreath and Shield" helmet may have been issued to elements of these four infantry regiments, but again, photographic evidence of this practice is lacking.  The only example I am aware of is a painting done after the war.  Again, find an example of an in theatre photograph of a black doughboy identified to a company in the 372nd infantry and we can talk. 

 

As far as the American Red Cross units in Italy (ala Ernest Hemingway); again there is a possibility that some of these helmet devices may have been issued with French Adrian helmets that were acquired by the American Red Cross or possibly were issued to some members of the Norton-Harjes formations before they were disbanded in late 1917, but it appears that most new recruits for the ARC units in Italy were issued helmets along with gasmasks by the Italian military during the winter of 1917-1918 and therefore would not have worn helmet devices designed to be worn of French helmets.  (The Italian Adrian helmet has no holes for attaching the device.)

 

The photo you posted showing the (AAFS, whatever that is?) men posing while wearing the "Wreath and Shield" helmet device were if my memory is correct, actually American newspaper correspondents and not ambulance drivers at all.  Where they got their helmets is anyone's guess.  This photo was staged and nowhere near any belligerent Germans.

 

Oh and the link you posted to that article is ironic as many of the photographed used in illustrating this article were taken from articles that I originally published on this forum and others in the past.  Notice no photo credit is given.  Stay classy internet historians.  

 

To conclude my theory on the unusual "Eagle and Shield" Adrian helmet device is that they are not genuine.  In fact I have recently seen several very unusually new appearing French helmets that have been offered for sale on French eBay that are emblazoned with this very device.  I am more than willing to be corrected if anyone can provide corroborating evidence that proves that these helmet devices are genuine and worn by American volunteers but until then they don't pass the smell test as far as I am concerned. 

 

 

[644td]

I’m enjoying this Interesting topic

[Bugme]

34 minutes ago, Croix de Guerre said:

...Oh and the link you posted to that article is ironic as many of the photographed used in illustrating this article were taken from articles that I originally published on this forum and others in the past.  Notice no photo credit is given.  Stay classy internet historians...  

 

That's interesting Tom,  they gave me photo credit. Of course whenever I see my stuff used without a credit, I contact them and let them know they are welcome to use it, with credit. If not, then take it down. Most comply... some don't. 😡

[Croix de Guerre]

3 minutes ago, Bugme said:

Interesting,  they gave me photo credit.

Nice that he did for you.  Oh and while I am being a curmudgeon,,,if you are going to write an article and use other people's photos and research at least get the terminology correct.  It was not "AAFS".  The ambulance sections of the American Ambulance Hospital of Paris in 1914 and 1915 referred to themselves simply as the "A.A." as in "Ambulance Américain" or as "S.S.A.A." as in Section Sanitaire Ambulance Américain" or "S.S.A." as in "Section Sanitaire Américain".  It was later in 1916 when the field service of the American Ambulance Hospital of Paris became an indepent organization that you begin to see the term "AFS" used as in "American Field Service". 

The photo attached is an example of a group of American Ambulance volunteers in early 1916 from Section 4 outside the door to their shack with an improvised sign of "A.A.S.S. 4 Cantonment".  Meaning the camp of Section Sanitaire Américain Ambulance N4".  Remember they were attached to the French Army.  You also see them referred to as "S.S.U." or "Section Sanitaire Unis". The "Unis" being the French word for "United" as in "United States".  The use of S.S.A. caused some confusion as his term was already being used by British ambulance units attached to the French as in "Section Sanitaire Anglais".  I know this is esoterica and no one cares  but when you are officially an old curmudgeon these are the things you gripe about.  

 

[Croix de Guerre]

And yes they were sometimes called the "Field Service of the American Ambulance"......but I haven't ever seen the acronym "AAFS" used.  But I have known to be wrong from time to time,,,hard to believe I know but it does happen.  

[Bugme]

53 minutes ago, Croix de Guerre said:

And yes they were sometimes called the "Field Service of the American Ambulance"......but I haven't ever seen the acronym "AAFS" used.  But I have known to be wrong from time to time,,,hard to believe I know but it does happen.  

The ONLY time I have seen AAFS was on the photo shown here. I'm guessing a twitchy typing finger. 

[aef1917]

Ah yes, Alexander & Sons, inventors of the mythical "P17" helmet.  An excellent source of incorrect and/or speculative information.

[Bugme]

7 minutes ago, aef1917 said:

Ah yes, Alexander & Sons, inventors of the mythical "P17" helmet.  An excellent source of incorrect and/or speculative information.

Lol, thanks for the memory, I had forgotten all about that. "Know the difference!"

[Croix de Guerre]

"Museum Quality Restoration",,that is a polite way of putting it.  

[Croix de Guerre]

Are people really paying that much for repainted helmets??

[Bugme]

54 minutes ago, Croix de Guerre said:

"Museum Quality Restoration",,that is a polite way of putting it.  

 

*Janitors are now Maintenance Engineers

*Secretaries are now Executive Assistants

*Fakes are now Museum Quality Restorations.

Only the name changes.

 

[Burning Hazard]

My bad on choosing a not-so-good source, it was just a quick google search haha.

 

Thanks for sharing Croix de Guerre, this was a very interesting read!

 

Pat

[Croix de Guerre]

8 hours ago, Burning Hazard said:

My bad on choosing a not-so-good source, it was just a quick google search haha.

 

Thanks for sharing Croix de Guerre, this was a very interesting read!

 

Pat

No worries Pat, hope I didn't come off like the big jerk I sometimes am.  

 

[conn]

this has been a very interesting thread. a style of helmet that shows up now and then, but not trails. 

have any of the known helmets have names or serial numbers written in them ?

i have to hunt down a friend of mine that purchased one of the type with eagle and shield at a flea market we were at approx. 7 years ago.

 

thanks to all who worked on the mystery

[Croix de Guerre]

On 5/19/2021 at 7:41 PM, conn said:

this has been a very interesting thread. a style of helmet that shows up now and then, but not trails. 

have any of the known helmets have names or serial numbers written in them ?

i have to hunt down a friend of mine that purchased one of the type with eagle and shield at a flea market we were at approx. 7 years ago.

 

thanks to all who worked on the mystery

No "serial numbers" were assigned to drivers in the American Field Service.  They were assigned numbers by the American Red Cross which you find written on the reverse of th Geneva Cross armbands that were issued to them by the American Ambulance Hospital in 1914-1915.  They also had numbers associated with their identity cards but I've not ever seen them used on any piece of equipment or uniform as a form of identification.   Most ID'd helmets I'v seen simply had the guys name scratched on the inside.   Honestly at this point a name written, scratched or painted on one of these suspect helmets wouldn't change my mind regarding their authenticity as their names are out there for anyone to find through a little research.  Where did your friend buy his helmet?  In the US or in Europe?   My take on this helmet device until someone proves otherwise if that they are not genuine.   I hope someone can prove me wrong so I can add one to my collection but at this point I think they are as crooked as a politician.  

[conn]

helmet was purchased in the U.S.

no history to how it came to a flea market table

i hope to see my friend this weekend, if he still has it, i will request photos and ask for any identification or names on it

 

[AustinO]

Coincidentally I just picked up the below photo of an American Captain wearing a French helmet.  Looks like perhaps the standard French medical wreath on the front, versus the smaller AFS wreath. Unfortunately the photo quality just isn't quite good enough to be sure! 

[Croix de Guerre]

11 minutes ago, AustinO said:

Coincidentally I just picked up the below photo of an American Captain wearing a French helmet.  Looks like perhaps the standard French medical wreath on the front, versus the smaller AFS wreath. Unfortunately the photo quality just isn't quite good enough to be sure! 

Very cool image.  

[Jean-Loup]

I dont not like the rust and patina on the helmet that started this thread. In France fake Adrian badges have been made for years.

[themick]

5 hours ago, Jean-Loup said:

I dont not like the rust and patina on the helmet that started this thread. In France fake Adrian badges have been made for years.

I agree.  the rust really looks contrived. 

 

Steve

[Croix de Guerre]

12 minutes ago, themick said:

I agree.  the rust really looks contrived. 

 

Steve

 I agree as well, combined with a BS badge = fakery 

 

[Croix de Guerre]

 I was scrolling through my photos and came across this hinky example of the helmet device in question.  I used to (and still do) grab photos of any and all ambulance related material I come across on the web for reference. Unfortunately I have no idea where and in wha context I snagged this picture.   I have some others of this helmet device, that I'll post if I can find them.  Admittedly it is a cool looking device and as I said it might be genuine but I have serious doubts.  Another theory is that they were produced war-time, were never issued and some unscrupulous collector/dealer came across a pile and started increasing the value of otherwise mundane French helmets.  Just a theory.  

[Croix de Guerre]

Found them.  Again the patina on the device doesn't seem to jive with the helmet itself.