BowlofRice Posted August 29, 2017 Share #1 Posted August 29, 2017 The picker I work with found this at a rag mill - a USMC khaki Vandegrift,worn by a Master Sergeant of the Second Army. I couldn't believe it when he sent me the photos - but I picked it up, looked it over, and it appears to be legitimate. The sewing appears authentic and there are even traces of collar discs going over the holes for the EGAs. Besides, if this was a fake, wouldn't the faker have put a SSI like 101st Airborne instead of the extremely common and mundane Second Army? Judging from the chevrons, I'd say this was worn in the late 1940's. I am aware that tan worsted Ikes became an optional item for officers in 1946 or so, but I've never seen an enlisted example - maybe that's why this Sergeant had to "make do" with a Vandegrift! Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I couldn't find any other examples online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 29, 2017 Share #2 Posted August 29, 2017 Possble the person served in the Marines then went to the army post war and used what he had? or its just something that was avaiable and it got used by the owner. Not a lot of value in 2nd army so dont see where it would have been done for high resale 2nd army was a stateside unit even during th war and after conducting mobilization and traing od troops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted August 29, 2017 Share #3 Posted August 29, 2017 Agree with Doyler on the 2nd Army patch. Fakers don't typically create things with boring units. Jacket set-up is too strange not to be legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QED4 Posted August 29, 2017 Share #4 Posted August 29, 2017 Keep in mind that everything that is made up is not made up to fool people or make money. There are any number of reasons this could have been made, a kid wanted to play Army and had his mother sew Dad's old patches on Uncle Bob's old jacket, it could have been made as a costume for a play using what was available, or any of several reasons. People tend to see what they want to see, if they want real then it is, if they want fake that's what it is. As for the theory that no one would fake a common uniform that is not true. You have a jacket you can't sell some patches you can't sell you put them together and they sell. Granted you won't make a lot of money but you will make some money from some things you had that were unsalable. It take five minutes to sew the patches on and some of us can do it ourselves with out paying someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 29, 2017 Share #5 Posted August 29, 2017 I thought of that as well someone threw it together Its hard to say either way Maybe for a Sgt Bilko impression. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinjmpr Posted August 29, 2017 Share #6 Posted August 29, 2017 Could maybe have been a costume for a play or a party? I could see someone who wanted to dress up like a late WWII or post WWII GI with an "Ike" jacket and who wasn't well versed in the subtleties of military uniforms seeing this in a surplus store and saying "eh, close enough" and then having the patches sewn on. I would think that if this was something that had actually been done in the military there would be at least ONE photo SOMEWHERE of somebody doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 31, 2017 Share #7 Posted August 31, 2017 I owned a ike jacket that had been made out of an hbt shirt once.It had been cut and tailored identical to the ike jacket.The vet had been in the 25th ID.Rank and patches sewn on it.I 'll guessing done while in Japan during occupation but why?...Something tolerated at unit level or unit level...who knows.There isnt pictures of it either and the story is lost to time. We have post here on forum of an M43 cut down and worn.Many anomalies out there and no way really to explain them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlofRice Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted August 31, 2017 Thanks for the feedback guys. Not exact, but close, here's a late 1940's photo of a soldier using a shirt as a jacket. https://scontent.fyyz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19642234_10155776375695649_9013904102584716991_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=db2129982640ad025d2d8cc9b954db51&oe=5A1EA5D7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu Warrior Posted August 31, 2017 Share #9 Posted August 31, 2017 I could see a US Army soldier possibly getting away with wearing USMC camouflage out in the field. However, I seriously doubt that any US Army unit at any point in history would tolerate a soldier wearing a USMC dress uniform of any type, especially one with USMC rank on it. With that said was it possibly worn by a Marine that was attached to a US Army unit? After all, when my NG unit was attached to a USAF Security Squadron at Andrews AFB there were a few Airman I saw with the 29th ID SSI on their USAF uniforms. I can't remember what their job actually was but it had something to do with the weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 31, 2017 Share #10 Posted August 31, 2017 This isnt USMC rank Its the summer twill the ARMY used.Not often seen but worn on the typical khaki shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertrat Posted August 31, 2017 Share #11 Posted August 31, 2017 If my color vision is correct (and it often is not ), the 2nd Army is done on the AG background. If so, that throws another wrinkle in determining age/authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDermut99 Posted August 31, 2017 Share #12 Posted August 31, 2017 At the high school I went to there were a couple military uniforms in the theater dept. that could be defined as "mixmasters". I specifically remember an army uniform with air force rank and I believe some USMC and navy insignia thrown on as well. It wasn't WWII-era, more like Korea-Vietnam, but it shows that there is a possibility that this was done by a theater costume designer that was on a budget and happened to have the jacket and patches in the supply closet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu Warrior Posted August 31, 2017 Share #13 Posted August 31, 2017 This isnt USMC rank Its the summer twill the ARMY used.Not often seen but worn on the typical khaki shirts. Then I vote its put together. Because not only could I not see a US Army unit tolerating a soldier wearing a USMC uniform, I couldn't see a senior NCO wearing one as well. As far as the rank is concerned I learned something new today. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul70 Posted August 31, 2017 Share #14 Posted August 31, 2017 I read an interview with a pow in Japan. They were sent out to a navy hospital ship after liberation. All the prisoners were given Marine uniforms regardless of branch or nationality. They wore them back to San Francisco. I am sure some made it home in duffel bags and some may have sewn patches on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 31, 2017 Share #15 Posted August 31, 2017 Then I vote its put together. Because not only could I not see a US Army unit tolerating a soldier wearing a USMC uniform, I couldn't see a senior NCO wearing one as well. As far as the rank is concerned I learned something new today. Thank you!Anything is possible and nothing will surprise me. We really dont know because we werent there.I often use a uniform I posted here in the past.The man was a ranking NCO.I was advised to put the "ribbons" in correct order....Well Im happy with it just the way it is as thats how the man wore it and have a photo to show it.Why make it "collector or book" correct? Im just saying theres correct and regulation but many things happened as with this man he was a POW and not sure if he knew or cared his ribbons were incorrect. Here is a link to the uniform. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20521-3rd-ranger-uniform/?hl=tribune&do=findComment&comment=143687 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 31, 2017 Share #16 Posted August 31, 2017 I read an interview with a pow in Japan. They were sent out to a navy hospital ship after liberation. All the prisoners were given Marine uniforms regardless of branch or nationality. They wore them back to San Francisco. I am sure some made it home in duffel bags and some may have sewn patches on them? Not uncommon to see US POW personel in Brit uniforms either.The Gold Star Museum at Camp Dodge use to display the Britbattle jacket,tam-o-shanter,and trousers worn by a former AAC POW who when reelased was in British controled section and the uniforms they were given were what was issued from British QM stocks from the liberating unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted August 31, 2017 Share #17 Posted August 31, 2017 If my color vision is correct (and it often is not ), the 2nd Army is done on the AG background. If so, that throws another wrinkle in determining age/authenticity. I was thinking that too, AG44, could be the photo making it appear darker, but my first impression was it that's what it was. So Rice, is this a OD or an AG44 background on this 2nd Army patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu Warrior Posted August 31, 2017 Share #18 Posted August 31, 2017 Anything is possible and nothing will surprise me. We really dont know because we werent there.I often use a uniform I posted here in the past.The man was a ranking NCO.I was advised to put the "ribbons" in correct order....Well Im happy with it just the way it is as thats how the man wore it and have a photo to show it.Why make it "collector or book" correct? Im just saying theres correct and regulation but many things happened as with this man he was a POW and not sure if he knew or cared his ribbons were incorrect. Here is a link to the uniform. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20521-3rd-ranger-uniform/?hl=tribune&do=findComment&comment=143687 If I was a betting man I would bet good money that the ribbons on my own Class A uniform aren't in the right order. Matter of fact I was once informed by a Platoon Leader that they were in fact not in the right order. This was during a Class A inspection and I don't believe that I ever fixed them. Considering the fact that in almost nine years in the US Army I wore the dress uniform maybe seven times so I figured why bother. Five of those times where for our annual Class A inspections, that's if they even remembered that we had an annual Class A inspection, and a couple of times for Christmas parties and that was about it. Have a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jguy1986 Posted August 31, 2017 Share #19 Posted August 31, 2017 Not uncommon to see US POW personel in Brit uniforms either.The Gold Star Museum at Camp Dodge use to display the Britbattle jacket,tam-o-shanter,and trousers worn by a former AAC POW who when reelased was in British controled section and the uniforms they were given were what was issued from British QM stocks from the liberating unit I have a 79th Division example just like that. It's waaaaaay bigger than his US coat, so I assume he was issued it as emergency clothing post-Liberation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlofRice Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share #20 Posted September 2, 2017 I was thinking that too, AG44, could be the photo making it appear darker, but my first impression was it that's what it was. So Rice, is this a OD or an AG44 background on this 2nd Army patch? tpost-105136-0-39023000-1503973761.jpg It's an OD patch. It also has the long "tail" of extra thread on the inside, like I've seen on a lot of legitimately applied patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted September 3, 2017 Share #21 Posted September 3, 2017 It's an OD patch. It also has the long "tail" of extra thread on the inside, like I've seen on a lot of legitimately applied patches. Tail? specify"long "tail" of extra thread on the inside" Not merrowed right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted September 3, 2017 Share #22 Posted September 3, 2017 Tail? specify"long "tail" of extra thread on the inside" Not merrowed right? Thats how I read it the thread from the bobin is left on the inside of the jacket untrimmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlofRice Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted September 3, 2017 Tail? specify"long "tail" of extra thread on the inside" Not merrowed right? Yep, the extra thread from sewing the patch was left untrimmed on the inside. Seen it very often on WWII jackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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