Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 28, 2017 Share #26 Posted August 28, 2017 another angle of Moore and his helmet at the National Infantry Museum, as you can see sometime after he made Colonel he got a new cover (and maybe helmet too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 28, 2017 Share #27 Posted August 28, 2017 Another of Colonel Moore wearing the helmet that is at the 1st Infantry Mueseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #28 Posted August 29, 2017 Sorry if this is slightly off topic - but it seems that just by chance one half of Mel Gibson's helmet cover matches up almost exactly. It's bound to happen with the pattern repeating, but still unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 29, 2017 Share #29 Posted August 29, 2017 Here is a photo of the inside- moore2.jpg Erik Is the rank insignia on the helmet pin back (one long horizontal) pin or clutch back (two posts with brass fasteners)? Just curious as the Ltd Col and Colonels insignias seem to set away from the cover.Also pin back would be easier to change. Thanks for sharing this helmet with the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted August 29, 2017 Share #30 Posted August 29, 2017 Looks like the helmet Hal is wearing in post 23 and 26 has the later rear nape strap that the WW2 vintage liner shown does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 29, 2017 Share #31 Posted August 29, 2017 Here is a photo of the inside- moore2.jpg Just shows that even some helmets with little wear to the inside can be battle used helmets. Hal's helmet shows wear but not excessive , just light staining on the leather Fantastic helmet D.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxembourg Posted August 29, 2017 Share #32 Posted August 29, 2017 Excellent helmet with photo provenance! Although I think that only this cover was used in Vietnam for sure while the shell and liner were replaced during or after the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted August 29, 2017 Share #33 Posted August 29, 2017 Is this a nape strap or the paratrooper chin cup tucked around back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #34 Posted August 29, 2017 Looks like the helmet was complete before he donated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikthehistorian Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share #35 Posted August 29, 2017 I will check to see about the fastening mechanism for the pin. In doing my research, it appears that Moore's helmet has a P64 Parachutist liner but married to an older strap system from the P55 liner. Opinions? Also, learning about the varieties of laminated cotton duck. Apparently they come in different weights. Any idea what weight this liner represents? http://www.chicagocanvas.com/blog/cotton-duck-classifications/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #36 Posted August 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #37 Posted August 29, 2017 I will check to see about the fastening mechanism for the pin. In doing my research, it appears that Moore's helmet has a P64 Parachutist liner but married to an older strap system from the P55 liner. Opinions? Also, learning about the varieties of laminated cotton duck. Apparently they come in different weights. Any idea what weight this liner represents? http://www.chicagocanvas.com/blog/cotton-duck-classifications/ moore7.jpg The liner is a WWII produced liner. Not too uncommon to see WWII helmet shells or liner used in Vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted August 29, 2017 Share #38 Posted August 29, 2017 Erik, in regards to the helmet shown, the liner is a WW2 liner, probably made by Westinghouse in 1944/45 which would have been 20 years old by the Battle of Ia Drang. It lacks the rear nape strap that extends below the shell as pointed out in the photos in posts 23, 33, and 36. The cover is undoubtedly the same one Hal wore in Vietnam. The shell may or may not be the same. The liner probably isn't, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #39 Posted August 29, 2017 The shell in the museum has M1 chinstraps, I can't tell if they are buckled into the liner in the period photos or absent. I'm not sure what is behind his head, I see a grommet, which the 3 point nape trap doesn't have, but it looks too small for a paratrooper chincup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted August 29, 2017 Share #40 Posted August 29, 2017 The shell in the museum has M1 chinstraps, I can't tell if they are buckled into the liner in the period photos or absent. I'm not sure what is behind his head, I see a grommet, which the 3 point nape trap doesn't have, but it looks too small for a paratrooper chincup. The photo in post #35 shows the shell has M1C chin straps tucked into the camo band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #41 Posted August 29, 2017 The photo in post #35 shows the shell has M1C chin straps tucked into the camo band. The question is do any of the photos of Hal Moore in Vietnam show M1-C Chinstraps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 29, 2017 Share #42 Posted August 29, 2017 s-l300.jpg Looks like the helmet was complete before he donated it. better quality version of the photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted August 29, 2017 Share #43 Posted August 29, 2017 It was common to tuck the A straps up into the liner when not in use.If you dont unbuckle the chin yoke/cup It in a sense becomes a "nape strap" when place toward the rear. It wouldn't surprise me a bit that there were a lot of World War II liners floating around Fort Benning at the time when the 11th Air Assault was a test platoon and handed down through the 11th Airborne Division at some point A friend of mine still recalls in 1969 you could get Sterling marked Pinback jump wings at the PX as well at Fort Benning he said there were boxes full so there was a lot of World War II stuff prior to and during the Vietnam war available to them it was just military issue it wasn't collectible. When he was with the 11th Airborne around 1958 or 59 he said the same thing in Germany you go to the supply sergeant and all the wings were basically Pinback and World War II issue. We had a local Air Guard unit here and some of their helmet liners that they had repainted blue or World War 2 issue paratrooper liners this when I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted August 29, 2017 Share #44 Posted August 29, 2017 The question is do any of the photos of Hal Moore in Vietnam show M1-C Chinstraps. Ok, I get you now. That is hard to determine by the old black and white photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted August 29, 2017 Share #45 Posted August 29, 2017 Different pictures with same helmet cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theorywolf Posted August 30, 2017 Share #46 Posted August 30, 2017 Great helmet! One for the books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron bender Posted August 30, 2017 Share #47 Posted August 30, 2017 My opinion is the WW2 produced Westinghouse liner in the helmet now is not the one he wore in Vietnam. It would be well used beyond what is seen here. I'd bet all of those guys serving with the 1st would have the newest gear available when they deployed, including helmet liners. That said, there's plenty of pics of WW2 helmets and liners in use by GI's in Nam throughout the war. Helmet cover is incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 30, 2017 Share #48 Posted August 30, 2017 another of Hal Moore's helmet before it was donated to the museum, looks like it was complete then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted August 30, 2017 Share #49 Posted August 30, 2017 Gotta be one of the top 20 coolest helmets ever shown on the USMF....mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikthehistorian Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share #50 Posted August 30, 2017 Here is a view of the insignia from the side- should show how it was fastened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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