Help with a possible 1911/A1 purchase

[Brian Dentino]

First of all, I do not have this in hand and therefore cannot provide any pictures. I know that this makes this a "shot in the dark" question but hoping that someone here could help me out on possible value range? Pistol has a 1943 Colt frame and Ithica slide manufactured sometime between 1943-1945. Has a parkerized finish and is US Govt marked. What would I reasonably pay for an incorrect (but all WWII dated) 1911/A1? And yes, if I get it I will shoot it! Not sure if this is a CMP pistol or old arsenal rebuild?

Thanks, Brian

 

I should add that this is from a co-workers fathers estate and she will be bringing the weapon back when she goes down to clear out the house, I only have appraisers (low) description at this time.

[Brian Dentino]

Don't be shy guys.....lets call this a good shooter with most/all WWII parts......don't be scared to ballpark it for me....she just wants to get rid of it.

[Dave]

I think folks are hesitant to make price suggestions without photos as there are so many variables when it comes to these. When I sold mine two years ago (it was in the "shooter" category) I had guys giving me a range of anywhere from $800-$1500 on it (and that was with photos!) I finally sold it for $1200. Before I asked about it, I had no idea there were so many things to look for on them that made the price vary as much as it does.

 

My thoughts...just don't think that people don't like you or something by their lack of replies - as there's probably a good explanation.

[Dave]

This is the one I had. Like I said, I got $1200 for it locally here in So Cal.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/210976-thoughts-on-this-m1911a1/

[jeremy69]

I think $800-1500 is a reasonable number given the lack of info. Could be less if it's rusty or otherwise abused. Marked arsenal rebuilds are becoming collectible or desirable in their own right.

[thorin6]

I had an Ithaca frame and Colt slide that was really nice, but other things called. I sold it several years ago for $1000. Look for a rebuild mark like RIA (Rock Island Arsenal) or AA (Augusta Arsenal), they were common rebuild sites. RIA marked on the right side, AA marked on the left side. Sometimes there will be an additional letter for the inspector.

[Brian Dentino]

Thanks for the replies all! No Dave, I didn't feel like no one was liking me.....I have been doing this long enough to know that with the scant amount of info and no pictures it would make most (myself included if it was in my area of knowledge) hesitate with so many variables unanswered. I am guessing that unless it is trashed, I will be able to pick it up and a fair price based on the couple comments made.....which is just what I needed to know.

Thanks again for the comments/speculations/shots in the dark.....it is much appreciated!

[Blacksmith]

Hi Brian - I was really trying to not comment here, but my conscience demands it. Without pictures, I would recommend a friend to ID the piece a little more before trying to get a value in mind. The range is VERY broad, even with assembly as you described. Please indulge me:

 

Just considering the possible ways a Colt frame and Ithaca slide could get married, there are really three ways this can happen:

 

1) Arsenal rebuild, where an Ithaca slide was added to a Colt frame to return a pistol to serviceable condition. This almost always resulted in a refinish, and will be marked by the arsenal with their rebuild mark, as mentioned above. There are more arsenals that rebuilt USGI 1911s than RIA and AA, such as Anniston Army Depot ("ANAD"). Be cautious here, as just because there is an arsenal rebuild mark, and it would be correct to be refinished, it still could be wearing a commercial refinish from after its time in service. This hurts the value immensely

 

2) Squad cleaning / unit-level switch. This is a convenient way to explain what is actually #3 (below), but is - I suppose - conceivably possible. This may happen in cases where a unit or unit armorer was cleaning multiple 1911s at once. As they are an early incarnation of "Mil Spec", parts were interchangeable. Simply meaning, you can put parts from different makers together, and they function. This was a condition of Ordnance acceptance, and to wear their escutcheon, your lot had to pass this test. Anyhow, this swap could happen where all slides were in one pile, frames in another, etc. As GIs criterion was functionality (not collectability), they didn't care which frame went on which slide, and assembled them without necessarily matching by maker. That said, I think this explanation is 'hooey', in most all cases.

 

3) "Mixmaster". Far more likely. This is where complete guns are built from surplus parts in contemporary times. This is much harder to do now, as frames are very few and far between. Mixmaster guns typically bring shooter prices from the knowledgeable, as while they are correct parts, they are not original guns.

 

In summary, the value differentiator in this (mixed part) scenario is the presence of a rebuild mark, and a finish that conforms to arsenal examples. If a mixed-part specimen did not possess both of those traits, I consider it shooter value - plus maybe a little bonus for 'cool factor'. Honestly, without pictures, it's a haircut by phone. There is no responsible way to give you a range of values.

 

All just my opinion.

[Brian Dentino]

Hi Brian - I was really trying to not comment here, but my conscience demands it. Without pictures, I would recommend a friend to ID the piece a little more before trying to get a value in mind. The range is VERY broad, even with assembly as you described. Please indulge me:

 

Just considering the possible ways a Colt frame and Ithaca slide could get married, there are really three ways this can happen:

 

1) Arsenal rebuild, where an Ithaca slide was added to a Colt frame to return a pistol to serviceable condition. This almost always resulted in a refinish, and will be marked by the arsenal with their rebuild mark, as mentioned above. There are more arsenals that rebuilt USGI 1911s than RIA and AA, such as Anniston Army Depot ("ANAD"). Be cautious here, as just because there is an arsenal rebuild mark, and it would be correct to be refinished, it still could be wearing a commercial refinish from after its time in service. This hurts the value immensely

 

2) Squad cleaning / unit-level switch. This is a convenient way to explain what is actually #3 (below), but is - I suppose - conceivably possible. This may happen in cases where a unit or unit armorer was cleaning multiple 1911s at once. As they are an early incarnation of "Mil Spec", parts were interchangeable. Simply meaning, you can put parts from different makers together, and they function. This was a condition of Ordnance acceptance, and to wear their escutcheon, your lot had to pass this test. Anyhow, this swap could happen where all slides were in one pile, frames in another, etc. As GIs criterion was functionality (not collectability), they didn't care which frame went on which slide, and assembled them without necessarily matching by maker. That said, I think this explanation is 'hooey', in most all cases.

 

3) "Mixmaster". Far more likely. This is where complete guns are built from surplus parts in contemporary times. This is much harder to do now, as frames are very few and far between. Mixmaster guns typically bring shooter prices from the knowledgeable, as while they are correct parts, they are not original guns.

 

In summary, the value differentiator in this (mixed part) scenario is the presence of a rebuild mark, and a finish that conforms to arsenal examples. If a mixed-part specimen did not possess both of those traits, I consider it shooter value - plus maybe a little bonus for 'cool factor'. Honestly, without pictures, it's a haircut by phone. There is no responsible way to give you a range of values.

 

All just my opinion.

 

Understood very well, expected (honestly) and much appreciated! I will certainly post pics once the pistol is in hand BEFORE I offer anything and we can get a better idea of what you all are commenting (admittedly in the dark due to my vague knowledge of the pistol so far).

Thanks again!