M-1913 Patton Saber/Sword withdraw from issue.

[Retired Army Noncom]

When the M-1913 was withdrawn from issue, was the void for a cutting edge item of issue replaced with a bayonet for the cavalry?

 

Thanks

 

Ed

[Retired Army Noncom]

I must be asking to hard of questions................

[bheskett]

I don't know about WWII but I believe the Marines in China used them. They may have never been pulled from service until the horse cav. was no longer used. This is strictly speculation.

 

Bob

[derrbrad]

Belive it was 1934 that it was officially withdrawn as a unit of issue.

[kanemono]

Patton swords were used every day by the Mounted Detachment on their patrols in and around Peiping.

Dick

[Retired Army Noncom]

Thanks for the answers..........They were officially withdrawn in 1934, took awhile though but....was anything issued in it's place as a cutting edge item/weapon? Everyone else had the bayonet and the cavalry had the sword, take the sword away and what did they have issued in it's place? MG troops had the Bolo and the regular troopers? I've not even see a photo of a bayonet issued to cavalry troopers but somewhere along the line, even mechanized cavalry troops were issued bayonets. I know there was talk and discussions about what to issued in it's place but I can't fine anything official that was decided on.

 

Ed

[derrbrad]

Only thing I could find regarding bayonet.

 

"But what did not come to a close was Patton's interest in sabers, with or without the M1913. In the spring of 1938, while stationed at Fort Riley, he sent three sample saber models to the new Chief of Cavalry, Major General John K. Herr, for inspection and consideration. Patton also discussed the benefits of a bayonet being issued vice a full sized saber. Perhaps one of the samples was a sword bayonet similar to his first purchased by his father many years before. In any event Major General Herr was instrumental in Patton's continued success, with the last Chief having the Army Adjutant General promote Patton to full colonel so he could subsequently command the still horse mounted 5th Cavalry Regiment at Fort Clark in Texas, and back to Fort Myer to command the 3rd Cavalry Regiment. Regimental command was to be a key step towards Patton afterwards becoming a general officer in the waning years before the Second World War."

 

 

-Blumenson, Martin., The Patton Papers 1885-1940, (Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1972), 31-34.

[Retired Army Noncom]

Only thing I could find regarding bayonet.

 

"But what did not come to a close was Patton's interest in sabers, with or without the M1913. In the spring of 1938, while stationed at Fort Riley, he sent three sample saber models to the new Chief of Cavalry, Major General John K. Herr, for inspection and consideration. Patton also discussed the benefits of a bayonet being issued vice a full sized saber. Perhaps one of the samples was a sword bayonet similar to his first purchased by his father many years before. In any event Major General Herr was instrumental in Patton's continued success, with the last Chief having the Army Adjutant General promote Patton to full colonel so he could subsequently command the still horse mounted 5th Cavalry Regiment at Fort Clark in Texas, and back to Fort Myer to command the 3rd Cavalry Regiment. Regimental command was to be a key step towards Patton afterwards becoming a general officer in the waning years before the Second World War."

 

 

-Blumenson, Martin., The Patton Papers 1885-1940, (Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1972), 31-34.

I think the conclusion would be, from the time the M-1913 Patton was withdrawn from service, no cutting edge weapon was issued till maybe.....1940?

 

It must have been hard for George Patton himself to be the CO of both the 5th and 3rd Cav (horse)Regt not seeing his troopers with his M-1913 cavalry saber that he instituted years before. I wonder what explicit words he used to describe what he was feeling?

[Frank Trzaska]

Attached here is the photo of the elusive Patton Bayonet as item #2 shown in a 1941 test photo. It was tested in 1938 and again in early 1941 by the Cavalry Board. Note they also had a cut down M1905 bayonet well before the M1905E1 came about. In the end the Board decided not to adopt any edged weapons for an individual trooper. I don't know when they decided to reissue the bayonet? Good question.

 

 

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

[Retired Army Noncom]

Thanks Frank....ever seen #2 up close and personal? For some reason I thought a one model came out which was both a bolo and bayonet? (with muzzle ring)

[Retired Army Noncom]

It was the Krag Bolo Bayonet M-1902 only 50 made!!!

[dustin]

It was the Krag Bolo Bayonet M-1902 only 50 made!!!

 

There is one member on this forum that has one! the Krag bayonet type.

[Retired Army Noncom]

 

There is one member on this forum that has one! the Krag bayonet type.

That leaves 49 and for me to have one, it would take the right place, right time and right price from someone that doesn't know what they have but being the honest fellow I am, I would educate them....somewhat !!!

[robinb]

That leaves 49 and for me to have one, it would take the right place, right time and right price from someone that doesn't know what they have but being the honest fellow I am, I would educate them....somewhat !!!

 

Make that 47. I know three people who own one.

[Frank Trzaska]

No I have not seen it in real life only the photo. I have contacted the Patton Museum as well and they are not there either. Three were made and to date none have shown up.

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

[Retired Army Noncom]

No I have not seen it in real life only the photo. I have contacted the Patton Museum as well and they are not there either. Three were made and to date none have shown up.

 

All the best

Frank Trzaska

The ultimate find awaiting to be found...............

[VeeVee]

When the M-1913 was withdrawn from issue, was the void for a cutting edge item of issue replaced with a bayonet for the cavalry?

 

Thanks

 

Ed

 

Hi, just stumbled on to this thread... for what it's worth. The US 26th Cavalry stationed in the Philippines were issued the M1915 bolo bayonet one per trooper. Three 26th cav veterans verbally confirmed it with me (prior to them passing away), and Frank Trzaska had graciously helped me confirm via his documentations (copies of orders and memos from the 1930's).

 

Victor

[Retired Army Noncom]

 

Hi, just stumbled on to this thread... for what it's worth. The US 26th Cavalry stationed in the Philippines were issued the M1915 bolo bayonet one per trooper. Three 26th cav veterans verbally confirmed it with me (prior to them passing away), and Frank Trzaska had graciously helped me confirm via his documentations (copies of orders and memos from the 1930's).

 

Victor

Thank you...nice to know.