M1936 mussett bag modified for C-1 vest

[phantomfixer]

Learned something new today...A M1936 mussette bag modified to carry the C-1 survival vest... I was able to hold it in my hand and look at the bag and the complete vest with contents ....I grabbed a pic off the internet, and I think it is the same bag I held today...

Does anyone else have one or seen one....the bag stores the vest, the bag has parachute material sewn in place with parachute hardware to wrap around the leg strap of a parachute...

 

The reference is in the Officers handbook for AAF...

 

would like to see more of this bag if anyone has one...

 

[dustin]

My first reaction to these are ....Poppy-Cock! FAKE!

The problem is that the diagrams in that reference manual clearly detail the parachute webbing attachment. So you have to ask yoursefl, How hard would it be to fabriate your own? The answer is, absolutely not hard at all. A complete vest in the bag adds Zero legitimacy to the bag itself so has no relevance. Someone sews a couple web straps on a $30 musette bag and viola it is now a $500 C-1 vest storage bag....get what I'm shooting at?!

The diagram in the manual is merely a suggestion to an alternate means of a quick attachment of the vest in the event the vest cannot be worn by certain crew members.

In the recent past someone spent a lot of money on a fake bag, and this is the one. I know where it came from and it had a cobbled together C-1 vest with it too. The one you held in your hand is most likely that one and that individual got partially swindled, the vest and most of the components are right so they didn't lose on that part. Anyone of these bags I see I class as Fantasy, aside from a solid provenance they will all remain in that category, for me.

[dustin]

401141371440

Here is the item number for the eBay auction this whole set came from, I cannot post links and such with the software I'm running.

[phantomfixer]

Thanks for that Dustin...I have no dog in the hunt on this.. real or not is not my concern...

 

I like the concept, and have never seen one in 30 years or so...I am thinking if they did pop up in the wild, without the C1 or any back story, guys would assume Airborne item? do to the modification material

 

 

You have seen more than one of these? Must be more rare then the coveted D bail

[phantomfixer]

I found the auction as a result of the search...so not concerned on price paid, real/fake etc...but more on if this was a practiced mod or a suggestion/possibility...

[dustin]

The D loop helmet has the benefit of being factory made, which allows for an analysis of details to determine authenticity, this bag does not. Now, the musette itself is not in question, those are a dime a dozen sort of speak and am not questioning it just the applied parachute webbing. That is not factory applied so one cannot really observe the stitching to really get an idea either. Real or not may not be your concern but is appropriate for the discussion on this thing. You were asking to see more of this bag, and it was my intention to interject if that anymore were to appear on this forum or elsewhere with one, approach it with extreme prejudice! I have seen other highly questionable examples, yes. It is a cool piece/concept, I'd agree, and I would love them to be real but sadly......

Here is something to consider that is a known fact, that reference manual went into print in June 1945, as reflected on the cover. It was not available for distribution until September 1945. That drawing was not into really any circulation until after the end of the war. So when these bags show up fabricated identical to the drawing raises red flags to me, at least them not being a WWII item, they are all identical and I just can't swallow it. The little baby loop hole here is that something could had been circulated prior to the release of the manual but there is zero documentation to support that. However, for the most part I can debunk that loop hole. The manual that went into print in June 1945 was an updated version from two previous printings from 1944, I have copies of both those and neither include instructions or descriptions about a bag for the C-1 vest. As supplements for Personal Equipment Officers, updates were circulated as Notes to Personal Equipment Officers, I have copies of those as well and they do not discuss the bag. Lastly, there were two technical orders drafted for distribution on the C-1 vest, again I have those and they do not detail a bag in any way. If something was circulated it would had been conducted in some official manner of channels. Bags such as these would had been made locally, and by the individuals creativity. We actually see a drawing schematic and for legitimacy purposes unscrupulous individuals make up the assembly and say.....see! here is you proof, it shows it right in the manual! Its from these hard documentation facts that I call the surfacing of these bags complete BS and why I will always be skeptical when they pop up in the wild, as you put it.

On the flip side, the concept is real. When the vest was used by service activities reports reflected that it was not always universally worn for a variety of reasons, in the event of bail out or ditching it was not being retained. To counter this issue the USAAF Equipment Laboratory instructed Personal Equipment Officers to stress the wearing of the vest at all times during flights to flight personnel, since that was there job to do so. It was the idea in the laboratory to compensate for the lack of wanting to wear it by investigating the idea of fabricating a quick attachable bag much like the QAC parachute or pararaft. This investigation was taking place during the time of the drafting of the revised manual. Until a suitable bag could be finalized, it was decided to introduce a concept as an interim until that standardized model could be formulated. Hence, the utilization of the readily accessible musette bag that could be available to all activities creating limited friction in requisitioning to the interested parties. However, wearing the vest was stressed to be the number one alternative. Ultimately in the end game the Equipment Laboratory gave up on adopting a bag, with it, the concept faded away with the end of the war.

[phantomfixer]

Dustin,

 

Thanks for your insight...

 

one piece in the evolution of survival kits and survival vests...

and yes it would be easy to reproduce.. I am sitting here, in my war room, looking at a bag, surplus webbing, and hardware...and of course a MB H7 parachute container

 

thanks Dustin

J