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Return of Donald J Gott's MOH.


SLEV2252
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Hi Guys,just thought I would clear up a few points on Gott's MOH now the dust has settled.I would like firstly to confirm that I definately did receive a call from an FBI agent from California out of the blue and I can only assume the MOH society whom I contacted to try and get the medal returned gave them my details and phone number.After several what I would call mildly intimidating calls and a discussion with the owner it was agreed to hand the medal back.I had to arrange to meet agents in terminal 3 Heathrow to hand it over as they did not want to collect at my home which is only 6miles from Heathrow.I agreed ,met the agents from the US London embassy and was given an official FBI receipt.A short time later I was contacted again and asked if I would return the Air medal and Purple Heart which which was also agreed.I refused outright to again meet them in Heathrow and they condescended to pick the medals up at my home.The same female agent and driver arrived and I handed them over in thier limo outside my house and was again given an official receipt.I suggested that perhaps they could arrange a nominal payment to the owner as he was seriously out of pocket.The agent said it could be a possibility and then left ,now in possession of the whole group.That was the last I ever saw or heard from them.

I would be very. Interested to know if any other members have any knowledge as to where the group is now.I did ask if it would be returned to GOTT 's family and was told it was unlikely as it was probably someone in the family that sold it.Any info on the groups present location or any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,Steve.

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This sounds extremely odd and suspicious. Anyone can print "official receipts". To only meet you at an airport terminal also sounds very suspicious. Did these agents show you any identification to prove that they were who they said they were? The only way that I would turn something over to a foreign embassy would be to go directly thru my own countries embassy.

 

...Kat

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Hi,they both had official ID cards and I checked the woman's name on the FBI site and there were pics on there of her when she was about ten years younger.I have no doubt they were who they said they were.As my home phone is ex directory I strongly believe the MOH society gave my number to the agent in the US who first rang me and arranged arranged for the collection.

Steve.

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For them to demand the non-MOH medals be returned as well... there must have been a stolen property report... because there would be no legal claim to those items by anyone without them being reported stolen.

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If there is no stolen property claim... then why did they confiscate the non-MOH items? That doesn't make sense.

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The thing is they did not actually confiscate the other medals they just made it clear they would like them to be returned to be put back with the MOH.I presume who ever sold them in the first place would have had a lot of questions to answer.I would also like to point out the group was never reported as stolen.

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Well.. then the buyer in Europe can request those medals returned because only the MOH is in play.

 

So if he wants to recover some of his costs... that would be the way to do it... unless he plans on getting a full refund from the original seller.

 

One way of the other... the European owners will recover some money.

 

Very weird situation for sure.

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If a family member sold them originally and these are returned to the family... what stops a family member from selling it a second time?

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I doubt the family could pull the same stunt twice especially as the FBI is involved and selling the MOH in the US can attract serious jail time and a huge fines.

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The medals will probably end up at the MOH Society then and the family will not be allowed to have their own medals back... and the European buyer probably won't see a nickel.

 

Again... very weird situation.

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What were the facts that led up to all of this? It would be nice to put all of this into some sort of context. If it has already been posted, perhaps someone could provide the link.

Thanks,

Steve

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I'll be blunt. Sounds like malarkey to me.

 

It is a strange duck. They would have to submit a Warrant to Seize Property (from a US court) that could only have listed the Gott MOH... and nothing else.

 

Would such paperwork even apply out of country? In addition, they would have had no paperwork or justification to even take the other items... makes no sense.

 

This entire thing is nutty.

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They would have to go to court in the country the MOH was located (I assume the UK) and get a court order there to seize the medal. Since owning and trading the MOH is not illegal there, they wouldn't get it unless it's proven stolen property.

 

Based on what is posted here (and I'm sure there's a lot more to this story) I really wonder why the owner voluntarily gave up the MOH, since it wasn't the family asking for it's return and the lack of a police report; especially without financial compensation. Needless to say, the US ban on owning/trading a MOH is not applicable aboad, and the FBI has no jurisdiction there either. He just could have told them to get stuffed and that would have been the end of it.

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They would have to go to court in the country the MOH was located (I assume the UK) and get a court order there to seize the medal. Since owning and trading the MOH is not illegal there, they wouldn't get it unless it's proven stolen property.

 

Based on what is posted here (and I'm sure there's a lot more to this story) I really wonder why the owner voluntarily gave up the MOH, since it wasn't the family asking for it's return and the lack of a police report; especially without financial compensation. Needless to say, the US ban on owning/trading a MOH is not applicable aboad, and the FBI has no jurisdiction there either. He just could have told them to get stuffed and that would have been the end of it.

 

 

 

Lets get something clear. Owning a MOH is not illegal in the US, so that is a non player. Transferring it is another story. This sounds EXTREMELY suspicious. The FBI has no jurisdiction outside the US and would have to go through diplomatic channels to try to recover property. Was the medal formally reported stolen? As mentioned, context is important here. I bet if you contact the FBI, they wouldn't know a thing about it. There is something really wrong here.

 

-Ski

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There has got to be more to this story. As pointed out, the FBI has no jurisdiction in the UK. Was there a U.S. issued warrant or did the just "request" the return of the MOH as they later did the AM & PH? Very strange set of events.

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aerialbridge

There has got to be more to this story. As pointed out, the FBI has no jurisdiction in the UK. Was there a U.S. issued warrant or did the just "request" the return of the MOH as they later did the AM & PH? Very strange set of events.

 

bob, the $64,000 question is "who gots Gott's?" You figure we'll find out anytime soon?

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You guys are correct, the FBI is a domestic organization which also serves as an attaché under the State Department at 64 embassies.

 

I do not believe they have the authority to do what has been described. So either someone has been had and ripped off... or there is some other story here.

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Don't FBI agents show badges (like the agents do on TV ;)) not just some ID card....and why would an embassy based agent meet you at an airport instead of at the embassy or your home and would they not, if coming to your home be with local authorities. I don't think federal agents can just run around other countries without local supervision. Just a guess...this all seems like something out of a novel.

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Don't FBI agents show badges (like the agents do on TV ;)) not just some ID card....and why would an embassy based agent meet you at an airport instead of at the embassy or your home and would they not, if coming to your home be with local authorities. I don't think federal agents can just run around other countries without local supervision. Just a guess...this all seems like something out of a novel.

 

The reason FBI works out of embassies is because embassies are US territory. They have no authority at Heathrow Airport and without local law enforcement overseeing the transaction, would probably be doing something outside the FBI domain.

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"The reason FBI works out of embassies is because embassies are US territory. They have no authority at Heathrow Airport and without local law enforcement overseeing the transaction, would probably be doing something outside the FBI domain."

 

Makes perfect sense to me....so it goes back to my question where was the local law enforcement....I can't see the U.K. allowing some other nations embassy personnel taking its citizens property without their ok and involvement. I am guessing other nations must have to do the same in the US....that's why this seems strange to me.

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Hi Guys,just thought I would clear up a few points on Gott's MOH now the dust has settled.I would like firstly to confirm that I definately did receive a call from an FBI agent from California out of the blue and I can only assume the MOH society whom I contacted to try and get the medal returned gave them my details and phone number.

I would be very. Interested to know if any other members have any knowledge as to where the group is now.I did ask if it would be returned to GOTT 's family and was told it was unlikely as it was probably someone in the family that sold it.Any info on the groups present location or any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,Steve.

 

 

 

OK, were you trying to voluntarily return the medal to the Gott family? Why may I ask? If so, then you would think that you would have to turn the medal over at the US Embassy, not at the airport. Trying to wrap my head around the events.

 

-Ski

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It would really help everyone understand what's going on if the OP gave us a narrative of events leading up to all of this. Where did the medal originally come from? Was it illegally sold? By whom, to whom, where, when, and how did the OP get involved in all of this?

Steve

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Sorry for the attachment i just couldn't resist; The X Files is a favorite of mine.

 

I suppose those medals are now in a place only Agent Mulder could dream of. Or resting comfortably on a padded tray safely hidden away for eternity deep in some climate-controlled vault (excuse some X-treme sarcasm) I'm just glad i began collecting at a time when these items could be displayed without looking over your shoulder; it was a good time folks.

 

Original discussion was at....hopefully the link links:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/262398-medal-of-honor-group-on-ebay/

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