DTRSSS Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 ADMIN NOTICE: This member: DTRSSS has been banned from this forum. He came here under the guise of being a genuine collector in need of advice and guidance. In reality, he was using this forum and the collectors on it to get some sort of stamp of approval for his forged helmet which he later listed on ebay with very deceptive language. A review of his ebay sales shows that this is not something new but happens to be the way he operates. Due to the diligence of the helmet collecting community, this fraudster was called out. The administration of the USMF takes honesty and integrity seriously and we strive to protect our membership from this kind of deception.I have a glider marked helmet with a Rigger liner. Mine Safety Appliance liner. The liner is dirty. The heat stamp is 258A S so it is not a McCord. The leather chin strap has a green painted brass fastener. The A washers are either black or dark green but they don't look really black to me. I have taken pictures that I thought were important. I can take more pictures if needed. I would like to know if it is real or fake OR if any particular component is fake. Question about leather chin straps in general: It is my understanding that all US WWII ones always have the embossed, horizontal lines and the ends of the leather are cut in a straight line. US ONLY ones are made by Carr and Scovill but there are some with no markings on them. Belgian ones are without the lines and have a rounded cut end and are thicker leather? Is this correct? Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 More pics Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 more........ Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 more........ Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 last one Thank you Link to post Share on other sites
doyler Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 the liner looks post war modified to begin with. shell straps are fake im my opinion.not looking right at all In Memoriam:Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 ItalyI HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHTForget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.." Have you Hugged a Clown Today? You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon.. Link to post Share on other sites
sgtdorango Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Agree steel pot chinstraps are repros ...liner looks to be authentic "rigger" para liner from the pics Always looking for and buying 50's era 11th Airborne/ 187th ARCT/ 82nd Airborne tac mark painted jump helmets! Link to post Share on other sites
Burning Hazard Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Even from a distance you can tell that the shell has some sort of ageing layer on it, the painted clubs also look like they have large scratches. OD3 Chinstraps are reproduction, the leather chin cup is an aviator type, leather liner chinstrap is an Euro Clone, Post-war sweatband, MSA rigger made liner..... the list goes on. Pretty poor fake. Pat Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 It's a poorly convincing fake. For starters schlueter never made M1C helmets. The straps are bad reproductions. The sweatband in the shell is actually a post war clone, the nape is a reproduction(dome snaps), and the liner strap is also a post war clone. I can't comment on the base liner webbing or A yokes. As its hard to see details. The helmet markings are unnaturally aged. Lastly, a glider troop would be issued a standard M1 helmet. Not a m2 or m1c. Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 I thought the liner was what made a M1 helmet into a M1C? Is it the color of the helmet straps and lack of wear on the buckle the giveaway? I see repo chin cups of this type on Ebay and they advertise them as paratrooper chin cups. Are they wrong then? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Ronnie Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Yes they are wrong.....on purpose. Chin straps make the M1C. Link to post Share on other sites
jkash23686 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Yes they are wrong.....on purpose. Chin straps make the M1C. +1 I don't collect helmets but... Website: http://wwiidropzone.com/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/wwiidropzone/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wwii_dropzone_helmets/ Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 The raised bar on the buckle is painted black. Is that correct? Every picture I have seen, they are brass colored or dark...like dirt, with a raised bar. Also, the raised bar has an indention running the length of the opening. That doesn't look right to me. Should it have this or not? Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 I also thought I read somewhere that McCord and Schlueter made their buckles a little different. Is this correct? Did they make their chinstraps a little different? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 I also read that their were 3 kinds of buckels.........brass raised bar (pictures showed a dirty brass color, simplified steel painted black, no bar and simplified brass painted black, no bar. Looking at some that I have, I see many that are brass with raised bar but are painted black. Link to post Share on other sites
Ronny67 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 This is called a "hump job". Usually because firstly, this helmet has been "put together again" like humpty dumpty with a mix of original and reproduction parts. Also called a hump job because someone always gets screwed. Independent research, and good books are the best insurance against getting screwed. The questions you are asking can all be answered through some time spent going through the old posts on this forum, and reading the literature. If you ask a single question, and it is answered: you have learned one thing. However, if you conduct research to discover the answer yourself, you find tons of other info you did not currently know as well as the original answer. We can only answer so many questions here... Crapgame: His name is Kelly. Used to be a Lieutenant, pretty good one too- until someone gave him orders to attack the wrong hill. Wiped out half a company of GI's... Somebody had to get the blame so he got picked.... Oddball (Laughing): Oh man, I don't like officers... Crapgame (Laughing): Neither does he, so relax! Link to post Share on other sites
pararaftanr2 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Not to pile on, but to help with the learning experience, that chin cup is not airborne. It is made of goatskin and of the type produced for the US Navy 1092 leather flight helmet. The color, type of leather and number of adjusting holes differ from an actual airborne helmet chin cup. https://pilotsmanyourplanes.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I read somewhere that the glider crew often wore rigger liners, hence M1-C. It made sense but now I am see that was not true. There is a lot of misinformation out there and it takes time to sift through it. Link to post Share on other sites
DTRSSS Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Thank you for the info on the chin cup. Repos are listed a paratrooper. Link to post Share on other sites
jkash23686 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I read somewhere that the glider crew often wore rigger liners, hence M1-C. It made sense but now I am see that was not true. There is a lot of misinformation out there and it takes time to sift through it. You read wrong then. If anything the glider crew were more than likely outfitted with regular M1s and regular liners. Its pretty much universally accepted that no rigger liners made it into battle during WWII specially the ETO. They seem to have started making them end of the war for the possible invasion of Tokyo that never happened. As everyone has said here, the helmet in the OP is an all out fake from top to bottom. I don't collect helmets but... Website: http://wwiidropzone.com/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/wwiidropzone/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wwii_dropzone_helmets/ Link to post Share on other sites
Burning Hazard Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 DTRSS, Is this your helmet on eBay? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WWII-US-GLIDER-HELMET-101st-AIRBORNE-327TH-GLIDER-INF-REG-1ST-BATTALION-/122547963375?hash=item1c886d85ef:g:VQoAAOSwvflZQJyE If you're going to list it then I would strongly suggest you put in the description that the helmet contains reproduction parts and insignia. Link to post Share on other sites
doyler Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 DTRSS, Is this your helmet on eBay? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WWII-US-GLIDER-HELMET-101st-AIRBORNE-327TH-GLIDER-INF-REG-1ST-BATTALION-/122547963375?hash=item1c886d85ef:g:VQoAAOSwvflZQJyE If you're going to list it then I would strongly suggest you put in the description that the helmet contains reproduction parts and insignia. Same helmet as posted here......... In Memoriam:Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 ItalyI HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHTForget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.." Have you Hugged a Clown Today? You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon.. Link to post Share on other sites
USMC-RECON0321 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 DTRSS, Is this your helmet on eBay? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WWII-US-GLIDER-HELMET-101st-AIRBORNE-327TH-GLIDER-INF-REG-1ST-BATTALION-/122547963375?hash=item1c886d85ef:g:VQoAAOSwvflZQJyE If you're going to list it then I would strongly suggest you put in the description that the helmet contains reproduction parts and insignia. Who ever the seller is, he has a whole pile of current and past auctions of fake helmets with very deceptive descriptions meant to deceive! And this is how we loose new / future collectors... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the auction description which was listed after all comments in this thread were made: Listed in category: Collectibles > Militaria > WW II (1939-45) > Original Period Items > United States > Hats & Helmets WWII US GLIDER HELMET 101st AIRBORNE 327TH GLIDER INF REG 1ST BATTALION This helmet is in very good condition. Some minor depressions on top, some surface rust spots, most of the cork is missing from the top and most is still intact on the lower half all the way around, above the stainless, front seam rim. Most of the insignia is intact with minor wear and marks. The chinstraps are stained but strong. The heat stamp is 258A S. The webbing is dirty but very strong. The rear nape area has the one end barely holding on with a few threads. Mine Safety Appliance liner. The A yokes are in very good condition and the buckles have some surface wear. The chin cup is in very good condition with just a small edge of the chamois coming off. The sweatband is in very good condition with minor staining. The liner exterior has some marks and scratches with some paint chipping on the middle edges and a small piece missing along the right, middle edge. Swivel bales are strong and move freely. Maybe 40% of the stainless edge is missing paint. USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04) Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Yup, look through the sold items. A USMC helmet with a rebuilt liner using repro parts and repro USMC cover sold for $670. Ouch!! Link to post Share on other sites
Ronny67 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Despicable Crapgame: His name is Kelly. Used to be a Lieutenant, pretty good one too- until someone gave him orders to attack the wrong hill. Wiped out half a company of GI's... Somebody had to get the blame so he got picked.... Oddball (Laughing): Oh man, I don't like officers... Crapgame (Laughing): Neither does he, so relax! Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now