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WWII Private Engrave DFC - Pricey


smwinter207
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Were any of the DFC's or AM's engraved in the field for AAF units following the raid? If so and this is one of them based on the engraving I could see that price. I have an official engraved DFC/AM pair for someone on the raid and think that DFC was around $700.

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That engraving doesn't look right for a Ploesti DFC. I know very little about engraving styles but that doesn't match others I've seen.

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It would be interesting to know if it was numbered. I have a numbered, but unnamed, one awarded to a fellow who earned it for Tidal Wave. I know it's his because the group came from his sister and had never been touched since last year (he was killed three months after Tidal Wave...)

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I've been doing some searching on Thomas W McGrain and find an inconsistency. In the couple rosters of Operation Tidalwave it appears that all of them show him being on the Gunn crew. The problem is that crew was a 389th BG crew attached to the 98th BG for this mission. They were shot down and the only survivor of the Gunn crew on B-24 "Prince Charming" was gunner S/Sgt Stanley M Horine. Does anyone know what crew McGrain was really with?

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So now I'm searching the planes McGrain flew on. I'm coming up with B-24D 'Blue Streak' 41-11613 which had previously been known as 'Florine Ju Ju' and 'Teggie Ann'. Here's where there's another twist, the lead plane for the 376th BG was the 'Teggie Ann' #4240664 piloted by Colonel Keith K Compton. This was the plane that General Ent was in. The Navigator on this 'Teggie Ann' was Harold A Wickland. Would that plane have had 2 navigators? The B-24D 'Blue Streak' previously known as 'Teggie Ann' was a different B-24 from the 'Teggie Ann' flown by Colonel Compton during Operation Tidalwave. Now that I've found the listing it looks like there is a logbook and it's being sold by the son. Still would like to know which plane he was the Navigator of.

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Interesting...I think that for the price, it's a bit excessive for a privately engraved medal. Must be some big-time fans of Ploesti raids (especially too much $$$ if not a Tidal Wave one, in my opinion!) that are going after it. This is one of those ones that the "rest of us" can sit back and watch and say "just what the heck is that bidder thinking...???" :D :D

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One bidder (k***k) pushed this thing up to $991. There were only 3 bidders. $1001 takes it, and it was not k***k Good luck to the buyer.

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Very nice medal! Got much more than I would have guessed, although Tidal Wave items have been getting big money the last few years.

 

JD

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Issue DFC and Air Medal privately engraved with award dates and name at some point. Perhaps with a log book worth the money. Have followed the Ploesti low level awards for years as my father was on it ( 345th BS, 98th BG). At no time have I read or seen any mention that medals were unit named for the mission. The 98th awards were within a few days of completion of the raid as many crews had been held over for this "extra" mission and were headed home. Every crew member ( from the 98th at least) was awarded a DFC or higher award for this mission. For many it was a OLC award as they had earned DFC's completing their tours or for individual acts.

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I'm floored that it went for that much, but I guess it is just like anything else when you get two people bidding on items. I'll have to reevaluate the value on my Tidal Wave medals and uniform to a crewmember on the raid.

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KASTAUFFER

This is why it went for what it did:

 

I was the # 2 bidder. When I saw I got outbid, I saw the bid was from 2AM so I figured it was someone from overseas. I knew about the Air Medal because I had been talking to the vets son for days and figured if I could have gotten it for 100-200, the group (DFC and the AM together) would have been in a good price range.

 

I had set a snipe bid earlier so I figured I would see what it would take to outbid the person because I figured they would be asleep when the auction closed. I kept bidding higher and higher and when I reached my original snipe bid I stopped.

 

What many of you don't know is that the DFC was also numbered. Buying the DFC also would give the high bidder the opportunity to get more items. You are basically buying a ticket,

 

Don't always take the closing price on an item at face value.

 

I don't know if I would start " re-evaluating" the prices of Tidal Wave groups just based on this auction.

 

Kurt

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post-157582-0-89141700-1496695608.jpegpost-157582-0-39024900-1496695630.jpeg

 

 

Thought I would go ahead and post a Ploesti DFC awarded to TSgt Frank Norris. He was on "Old Baldy" when it was shot down over target. The "Old Baldy" was assigned target "White IV" and the aircraft flew in Section D. My Grandfather also flew in Section D on "Black Jack." Needless to say... this DFC is particularly special to me.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It’s been a month since this bidding ended and I was the lucky or unlucky one to win it on eBay. That depends on your perspective as it relates to collecting and history. I was busy that week and didn’t see the forum post about the eBay listing and worked that weekend as well. I bid just before going to work that Sunday.

 

I looked at the DFC on eBay earlier in the week and knew it was legit, although not a posthumous decoration. I understand that the engraving is private and I’m okay with that as I definitely know who it was awarded to. I also knew it was numbered. Needless to say the flight record photo from Aug 1943 that was posted with it on eBay from the son, proved its provenance. It was the only item listed on eBay from this seller.
The retired navigator lived nearby and died in a local hospital in 2009 and his remains are inurned in the columbarium at Arlington National Cemetery. His only wife joined him in Arlington upon her death in 2012.
I emailed the seller and had a question or two and he stated that a lot of people were interested in it. I told him I fly for the Air Force and would like to keep this specific AF history (DFC and flight log) together, if possible. He responded that he was retired Air Force as well. My research led me to the crew and the aircraft the navigator flew on and any of my doubts were answered. What I discovered during that quest was typical when it comes to history and that is, people make mistakes.
Although listed on the Ploesti roster as flying with the Gunn crew, this is in error. He flew on the Gluck crew (515th BS, 376th BG) with Daniel Orr as the co-pilot and the B-24D aircraft name was “Good Time Charley” Serial No. 41-24030. That aircraft was the first “Good Time Charley” and is referenced as “030” (V1) or K/90. It was lost, written off on 1 Oct 1943 on mission number 171 according to 376th BG history.
A second “Good Time Charley or Charlie” as it’s referenced is listed as B-24J Serial No. 42-73084 and was lost on mission number 183 on 2 Nov 1943. Oddly enough, it is listed as “Ropes McGonigle” on the B24 best website. This checks with what the navigator stated in an interview as to what planes he flew on.
He also flew on B-24D 42-40760 or No. “87” and it was named “Solid John.” This aircraft apparently crashed upon takeoff and was done for on 14 Dec 1943.
He flew 52 missions after arriving in the theater from July to December 1943, of which 32 were combat missions. The other 20 were local sorties or base to base according to the flight logs. His last combat mission was on 3 Dec 1943, the day my mother was born and the date his AM is engraved.
Here’s what Kurt Stauffer stated as it relates to collecting.
“Buying the DFC also would give the high bidder the opportunity to get more items. You are basically buying a ticket. Don't always take the closing price on an item at face value.”
I’ve learned a lot from Kurt through the years and have bought quite a few items from him as well. I consider him a trusted agent on this forum!
With that, I saw the AM that Kurt had posted on the forum and knew the seller had the item. After I won the auction, I asked the seller about the AM and proposed a solid price and offered to pay him for copies of the logbook. He followed up with “Do you want his other medals, uniform, ribbon rack, wings, rank and the needle point of “Good Time Charley” #41-24030, which was the plane he flew the raid on.” Of course, I said yes! Initially I didn’t opt for the uniform as I have plenty of my own, but changed my mind and stated I’d be honored to keep it.
During our email exchanges, he relayed that his Dad also served in Air Rescue, which is what I do. I thought this was too good to be true and he sent me pics of a SB-17G that his Dad flew on during his rescue days.
His Dad got around! His flight log reflects that he flew on B-24D/E/J models, B-25H/J models, C-47D, B-17F/G models, SB-17G/H models, SA-16A, C-54G and C-82 aircraft.
His Dad was on a famous rescue in November 1949 of a B-29 crew that ditched in the ocean and 18 out of 20 personnel were saved after being in the water for three days.
So, now I have the items and am grateful to the son for parting with them. I called and left a message on his answering machine and thanked him for the opportunity to be the caretaker of his Father’s items. He called me back and we talked for an hour and a half. Because of his family ties to the local area, we’ll meet in the future. He’s interesting in his own right and I look forward to meeting him.
Here’s what I learned from doing research on this crew. They received the orders for the DFC on 12 Sep 1943 and had the DFC ceremony for the Ploesti raiders at Enfidaville Airfield, Tunisia on 29 Oct 1943 with General Doolittle presenting the decorations to the fliers. The DFC is numbered 6728. The AM is numbered 19357.
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Here are the other medals.
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Even with the great care taken by the seller for packaging and shipping, the glass was broken on the needle point of “Good Time Charley” when it arrived. No worries though, it’s being redone at a frame shop! Here’s a picture of it as it came to me.

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The uniform is as it was when he retired and is staying that way.

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Also, the seller sent this bracelet and stated it was an optimistic purchase. Most, if not all, aviation cadets wanted to be pilots, but apparently his Dad had a problem flaring at five feet and the instructors weren’t overly impressed by him. That and he’d seen some fellow cadet’s crash and burn, so the navigator position suited him fine.


As we celebrate freedom today, my hats off to TWM!

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Here's an article stating what planes he flew on and the presentation at Enfidaville.

 

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The newspaper incorrectly stated the DSC, versus the DFC, so no shocker there!

.

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In the previous post, they goofed up the date of the raid as well. Here's the touring pic after he's done with combat!

 

Cheers, Randy

 

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