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13th Bomb Squadron 1956-1958 The Devils Own Grim Reapers


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That is very convincing then....

 

Now here's the issue.....What details about the 105 patch make it distinct from original Thai patches?

 

You should try to make a list of everything unique about that 105 patch....it will be helpful for future generations of patch collectors.

 

Once we can make that list, we'll be able to apply it to other patches (including Dave/Thor's patch).

 

Steve

It's just a bit sloppier than typical known original Thai puffies. Most of those were works of art. Really it's just the border on this one. I have another from this series that's a mission patch that has ink marks on it from drawing out the design. That's something you usually don't see on the wartime ones (but occasionally do) but shows up on the 80s stuff a lot. I will also try to contact the guy and see if he still has the others. Maybe I can get some more pics to post. I'll post the other here tonight.

 

Randy

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Randy I totally get what you are saying.

 

It's just like all the stuff Harry MacAllistar made for collectors that some now think are original pieces.

 

Bob, thank you for joining the conversation - without going off in another direction foo far, can you briefly explain [or point to a link- I tried to find this fellows name on the forum briefly before work this am] this to collectors like myself who were not there in the 80s or may not know this fellow and his story?

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vintageproductions

 

Bob, thank you for joining the conversation - without going off in another direction foo far, can you briefly explain [or point to a link- I tried to find this fellows name on the forum briefly before work this am] this to collectors like myself who were not there in the 80s or may not know this fellow and his story?

If you do a search on the forum with Harry's name there should be some posts about him.

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thank you i only did a very brief search and i will look again and thank u firefighter for your posts

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If you do a search on the forum with Harry's name there should be some posts about him

 

 

Thank you. I have found a few threads... Just so I understand correctly, you are saying this patch COULD BE one of the ones that was made for collectors by this chap?

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vintageproductions

Harry did not make anything in Thailand, most of his stuff was done in Japan. I could be wrong but that's the way I understand it.

 

I take that back he did make a lot of Thai pieces, I totally forgot about his tabs and arcs.

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Harry did not make anything in Thailand, most of his stuff was done in Japan. I could be wrong but that's the way I understand it.

 

I take that back he did make a lot of Thai pieces, I totally forgot about his tabs and arcs.

 

Thank you for explanation.

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Here's another 80s Thai puffy. Again, a little sloppier than usual. Also, out of curiosity I made a small slit in the back of this one and an original from the war. They match inside as well. Overall, these could fool anyone without prior knowledge. There were plenty of patches done/picked up/created involving several people in the 80s from Thailand, and that is a fact. I'm just posting to make folks aware, not to drag anyone thru the mud. I'm kind of a purist and don't want anything that's not a piece of history. I would think that goes for most collectors out there. Am trying to get a hold of the guy I got these from, will post more details if I get them.

 

Randy

post-8832-0-27428700-1499818794.jpg

post-8832-0-76334100-1499818869.jpg

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Harry did not make anything in Thailand, most of his stuff was done in Japan. I could be wrong but that's the way I understand it.

 

I take that back he did make a lot of Thai pieces, I totally forgot about his tabs and arcs.

Harry was a CMSgt on the PACAF IG team and got all over Asia. Most of his patches were Japan made, but he had them from all over. I think it's another story of good intentions gone awry. Knew Harry for years and he taught me a lot, so all that was sad to find out.

 

Randy

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Here's another 80s Thai puffy. Again, a little sloppier than usual. Also, out of curiosity I made a small slit in the back of this one and an original from the war. They match inside as well. Overall, these could fool anyone without prior knowledge. There were plenty of patches done/picked up/created involving several people in the 80s from Thailand, and that is a fact. I'm just posting to make folks aware, not to drag anyone thru the mud. I'm kind of a purist and don't want anything that's not a piece of history. I would think that goes for most collectors out there. Am trying to get a hold of the guy I got these from, will post more details if I get them.

 

Randy

 

 

Thank you.

 

I'm still wondering why there aren't more of the caliber of the OP [mine not Phils] floating around out there- I can't seem to find another on the web YET that's closer than the ebay examples I found and posted in this thread-this is still not a 'similar' patch...if this person had created mine from thin air, wouldn't there be more almost EXACTLY like it? Theater made and all..?

 

Not trying to be a jerk and I appreciate the posts-just trying to understand.

 

dave

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You're not being a jerk, you're understandably trying to get a good answer. I'm sure you can see by the posts so far it won't be easy and probably you'll never get a 100% one since this is SEA related. I have seen a few of these over the years made just like yours. Never a used one or one from a unit member, but that could just be due to chance. There is an exact match on usmilitarypatches.com. But, full disclosure: I'm the admin for the USAF section there and already labeled it a possible repro. This site is still being built as we have time. Also, when searching, use the full unit name: 13th Bombardment Squadron, Tactical. I did that and found another on eBay just like yours. Came from a collection of a guy that bought everything and anything SEA related. So I would not put too much stock in that one's pedigree either. So that's 3 so far, and I'm sure more to come. I understand you wanting rock-solid proof, but in the minefield of patch collecting it's not always possible. You just have to go with the info available, sometimes a gut feeling, and decide if it's worth keeping. It's either a piece of history or it's not.

 

Randy

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i have tried but cant locate the patch u say u found on ebay in last post please post the link ramdy to the one u mentioned that looks like mine thank u

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River Patrol

Yea, that one on Ebay is being sold by Jason Hardy, originally from Chris's collection (USAF collector)....Chris did buy everything USAF Vietnam and he was very good at it.

 

I have only seen one Party Suit from this group.....It had a direct embroidered Oscar but was not a perfect match to Dave's (Thor996) patch.

 

I haven't seen many of these patches...if they were reproduced, wouldn't there be more than three sold in the past 10 years?

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This has been a great thread for any collectors interested in USAAF SEA embroidery styles , a lot of excellent information on the behind the scenes history.

 

Thank you for all those who have posted.

 

Keep adding to the embroidered styles and comments.

 

cheers

 

Phill

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  • 1 year later...
InvaderHistoricalFoundatio

Thanks for the comments guys.

Here is where I received he info from.

 

Phill

 

 

 

That image is from Don Henderson on Deviant Art. He is the current head of the 13th Bomb Squadron Historical Association and editor if the 13th BS's newsletter, "Invader". He's a good guy, but a bit slow on the emails as he is an illustrator by profession and it pretty busy with work. That said, you can bet that the information on his images is as accurate as they come.

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InvaderHistoricalFoundatio

Oscar one

 

This patch is circa 1947 and would have been worn during the occupation of Japan.

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InvaderHistoricalFoundatio

Oscar 2 these are my Oscars Phil!

 

As the 13th was an Invader unit, and one that my grandfather flew with, I've learned a lot about the unit over the years. This patch is not an official US Military patch. Oscar has never been on a white background in an official patch or emblem. Even during Vietnam, the official 13BS patches featured Oscar on a Blue background.

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InvaderHistoricalFoundatio

Gidday Dave

 

Do you know what years those were issued and worn and also the meaning of the yellow sythe?

 

Phill

 

There's no meaning behind the yellow scythe, as far as I know. It's been brown or yellow in most versions to help it stand out against the white bones.

This poster, drawn by the 13th Bomb Squadron Historical Association president, Don Henderson, shows the lineage of the USAF Oscar patches from WW1 to present.

https://www.deviantart.com/yankeedog/art/History-of-Oscar-61874021

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