Question about US & ARVN jump wings on jungle shirt

[MACSSOG]

Greetings all, I have been offered a VN period tropical coat. It all seems correct, though one thing bugs me. It has US Basic Parachutists wings but ARVN Master parachutists wings. Would this have been possible? Many thanks for your assistance.

[Martinjmpr]

I can think of a number of ways that could happen so I wouldn't pass on it as long as it otherwise seems legit,

 

Foreign awards of all kinds are often awarded in ways that don't neccessarily conform to the strict rules of AR 670-1.

 

Back in 1995 we had a bunch of French paratroopers come and do a joint exercise with us on Fort Bragg (this was 3/3 SFG.) At the end of the jump we awarded all of them US jump wings - but the wings we awarded were all "master" jump wings. Why? Who knows? but that's what they did - every French jumper got a set of Master wings a nice certificate printed up by our S-1 on his color printer.

 

So here are a few things I can think that could account for that:

 

1. The soldier was awarded VN basic jump wings and either by mistake or by embellishment, he sewed on the Master badge.

 

2. The criteria for the VN master badge was different from the criteria for the US Senior or Master badge (Senior wing badge is my avatar, BTW. ) and the soldier met the criteria for the VN master badge but not the US master or senior badge.

 

3. The soldier would have been authorized the US Senior or Master badge but simply chose not to apply for it or not to wear it - maybe his uniform already had the basic wings and he didn't have the time or inclination to sew on the US Senior or Master wings when he rated them.

 

This last one seems very likely to me. I knew a LOT of guys who rated senior or master wings who either chose not to put in for the badge (when I was in even if the soldier met all the criteria - graduated Jumpmaster school and had the requisite number of jumps - the soldier still had to take the initiative to put in for the award of the badge) or put in for the badge and had it awarde but chose not to wear it.

 

Here's why: In an airborne unit, qualified jumpmasters often get "tagged" for special duties. For example, lets say the weekend is coming up and the qualified Jumpmaster (JM) is looking forward to a weekend with the family. Then at 1400 on Friday, the S-3 NCO calls him up and says "Hey, Joe, 1st battalion has a jump on Saturday night and they're short 3 JMs so we need you to go with them so you can jumpmaster a stick." Well, there goes your weekend.

 

I knew guys who rated a senior or master badge but chose not to wear it because they didn't want to get snatched up for those additional duties (in theory, the training NCO or S-3 Air is supposed to maintain a list of qualified JMs but often times the details are handed out on a "Hey you!" basis.) A guy who walks around the company or battalion area with Senior or Master wings (since you need to be a jumpmaster to get either one) sort of makes himself a target for those kinds of details.

 

Now IMO that's lame - if they didn't want to perform jumpmaster duties then they should have let someone else go through the school - but I've seen it happen (and I knew this was their motivation because the soldiers in question actually TOLD me that's why they did it.)

 

Anyway, as I said, IMO there's nothing inherently wrong with having US basic wings and VN master wings.

[patches]

Was the guy who wore the coat an Advisor?

[MACSSOG]

Thank you Martin for the detailed explanation. I'm grateful!

 

Patches, no he wasn't. He's an officer in the 173rd ABN.

[patches]

Thank you Martin for the detailed explanation. I'm grateful!

 

Patches, no he wasn't. He's an officer in the 173rd ABN.

High ranking was he? I believe many high ranking officers of American Airborne units received as a token ARVN parachute badges of the Master catogory, I think member seanmc1114 knows more about this.

[MACSSOG]

Nope, just a relatively lowly Captain...

[patches]

Nope, just a relatively lowly Captain...

Hmm

[Martinjmpr]

 

 

2. The criteria for the VN master badge was different from the criteria for the US Senior or Master badge (Senior wing badge is my avatar, BTW. ) and the soldier met the criteria for the VN master badge but not the US master or senior badge.

 

 

 

I'm quoting my own comment here to emphasize this one, which is also a very strong possibility.

 

Many military awards indicate different proficiency levels by adding accouterments to a badge or insignia. In the US military, the common way is for the basic badge to indicate the lowest level of proficiency, to add a star to indicate the second level and to add a wreath around the star for the highest level. This is done on aviator wings, parachutist badges (including Military Freefall or MFF), Explosive Ordinance Disposal, etc.

 

Now, the requirements for the higher levels vary. In some countries military forces, the higher levels of an award are based solely on passing a certain threshold: For aviators, for example, it might be that passing a certain number of flying hours rates a higher award.

For parachutist badges in particular, in some countries, once you have made XX number of jumps, you automatically qualify for a higher award. In fact, I'd say that is probably the general rule worldwide.

 

In the US Army, though, that's NOT the rule. In the US Army, in order to wear anything other than "bald" wings (i.e. no star or wreath), in addition to having served a certain amount of time on airborne status and having a certain number and type of jumps, the soldier ALSO has to have graduated from a US Army approved Jumpmaster course.

 

So, it is entirely possible that the shirt is 100% legit - that the officer who owned the shirt met the qualification for the RVN master badge because he had XX number of jumps, but did NOT meet the qualification for the US Senior or Master badge because he was not qualified as a jumpmaster, or did not have all of the required "types" of jumps that a soldier needs in order to rate the Senior or Master badge.

 

When I got my Senior badge, just after I separated from Active Duty in 1996, the requirement for the senior badge was: (1) At least 30 months on jump status, (2) a minimum of 35 jumps, of which at least 2 had to be Mass Tactical (MT) and at least 15 with Combat Equipment (CE) and (3) Graduation from a certified Jumpmaster course and (4) Acted as a jumpmaster or assistant jumpmaster on at least one night jump (N/J or N/AJ annotated on the jump manifest.)

 

Interestingly, the requirement for the Master wings (wreath around the star) was exactly the same except the total number of jumps had to be 60 and the total number of MT's had to be, I think, 5.

 

There are lots of soldiers who wear master wings who never wore the senior wings. Basically, if they had served in the 82nd Airborne for a few years, they already met all of the requirements for the Master wings except for graduating from JM school and having one night AJ (assistant jumpmaster) on their records, so they went straight from "novice" wings to "master" without ever having the "senior" badge.

 

About Jumpmasters: For those not familiar with the Army airborne forces, Jumpmasters (JMs) are the soldiers who are responsible for planning and leading every aspect of an airborne operation. On every jump there is a Primary JM and many secondary JM's. Every person who performs a critical task related to the jump is required to be Jumpmaster certified.

 

This includes not only the primary jumpmaster and the "stick" jumpmasters (a "stick" is a formation of soldiers that all jump on a single pass of the aircraft), but also the "static safetys" (the soldiers who stay in the aircraft after the soldiers jump and who are responsible for inspecting the aircraft prior to the jump), and the Drop Zone Safety Officer or DZSO, who directs the jump from the drop zone on the ground.

 

JM's also conduct the pre-jump training that is required before a jump, give all the safety briefings, sign all jump manifests, account for all personnel jumping, and conduct the JMPI, or Jumpmaster pre-inspection, that is, the inspection of each soldier once he or she has put on their parachute and other equipment, to make sure it is all worn correctly.

 

Jumpmaster school is a highly sought-after school and even in airborne units, it is sometimes difficult to get slots. There are two big JM courses, one is run at Fort Bragg by the XVIII Airborne Corps and one is at Fort Benning GA and is run by the Airborne Department of the US Army Infantry school. Those are "regular" JM schools with full-time staff.

 

In addition to the regular JM schools, some units can be certified to conduct their own JM schools, using trained and certified unit members as staff. These are often done by Special Forces units and sometimes are done outside the US in joint training excercises with foreign military forces.

 

JM courses usually have very high attrition rates, over 50% failure is not uncommon. The most common failure area is the JMPI portion. The JM candidate is given 3 soldiers to inspect, one with full combat equipment and two without equipment (the slang term for jumping without combat equipment is "Hollywood." ) The JM candidate is required to completely inspect all 3 jumpers and point out any major or minor rigging deficiencies in 5 minutes or less. Miss a major rigging deficiency (defined as something that would cause death or serious injury to the jumper?): FAIL. Miss more than 2 minor rigging deficiencies? FAIL. Go over 5 minutes, even by 2 seconds? FAIL. If a candidate fails the JMPI inspection he is give ONE chance to retest. If he fails that, he's booted out of the course.

[MACSSOG]

Excellent posts. Thank you all very much for the Illuminating information!