OSS Weapons

[WWIIBuff]

Yea, that is the picture that actually brought me to this thread, but it is the only reference I have, and even after zooming in, I cannot really see the details.

 

Does anyone have Dr. John Brunner's book that can perhaps post a scan of whatever reference photos he shows?

[kwill]

I have his book and about 3 shelf feet of other reference books related to the OSS, the SOE and other clandestine organizations.  NONE have, or even mention, the type of garrote you're looking at.  Dr. Brunner has quite a rant as the introduction to his book about how many statements are incorrect, grossly exaggerated or outright ridiculous when it comes to weapons and devices attributed to the OSS.  Some, like thumb daggers and limpet mines were developed and used by the SOE.  Others, like the Liberator pistol or the glove pistol were American but not developed or used by the OSS.  

 

I've also checked the OSS Weapons catalog; The Plumber's Kitchen, The Secret Story of American Spy Weapons; Clandestine Warfare, Weapons and Equipment of the SOE and OSS; and Secret Agent's Handbook, The WWII Spy Manual of Devices, Disguises, Gadget, and Concealed Weapons.  None discuss a garrote.  The last book mentioned reproduces the Top Secret Descriptive Catalogue of Special Devices and Supplies compiled by the British War Office for the SOE.  No garrote.

[kwill]

OK, I think I've found the reference for this style of garrote that a number of people are reproducing.

This is from H. Keith Melton's book, OSS Special Weapons & Equipment, Spy Device of WWII.  Melton seems to have a relationship with the CIA and is the driving force behind the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.  He has no military background but is a long-time collector and has traveled the world acquiring "spy devices."  He made his money with McDonald's franchises.  The main part of his book is styled and typeset as a reproduction of the OSS Weapons catalog.   But it is not.  He has added in SOE devices and experimental weapons that were never produced or used by the OSS, such as the Liberator and the Navy's glove pistol. Dr. Brunner did not have a high opinion of Mr. Melton and considered the International Spy Museum "a tourist attraction."  

[WWIIBuff]

Wow kwill, that has got to be one of the most thorough and helpful responses I've ever received on a forum in my years of collecting.  Thank you very much!  I also enjoyed seeing your extensive list of reference material, now I know a few books I need to look for in addition to Dr. Brunner's.  Would you say his is the best one of the bunch?

 

It sure does sound like the OSS garrote may be more of a fantasy piece than a real item.  If I come across one that is fairly inexpensive, it might be worth picking up, but the one I am considering buying is pricey, so probably not something I will take a chance on after all. 

 

On a side note, I agree with Dr. Brunner's description of the International Spy Museum as "a tourist attraction", but it was quite enjoyable for me many years ago when I visited it as a "tourist".  I wouldn't hesitate to go again someday. 😊

 

Thanks again!  Your response is greatly appreciated.

[Outtair]

This is a Garrote carried by Robert Jewell SFG/SOG early Vietnam. He said they were used for silent killing. I have seen other pictures on the forum showing this in survival kits and mentioned that they were saws. If so apparently they were adapted for other uses.

 

Tim

[doyler]

4 hours ago, Outtair said:

This is a Garrote carried by Robert Jewell SFG/SOG early Vietnam. He said they were used for silent killing. I have seen other pictures on the forum showing this in survival kits and mentioned that they were saws. If so apparently they were adapted for other uses.

 

Tim

 

 

ummm.. this is a typical wire saw. Not uncommon to find in survival kits and still available today at surplus, camping and sporting goods stores. Had a couple when I was a kid.

 

 

https://www.sportsmans.com/camping-gear-supplies/safety-survival/axes-saws-shovels-shears/saws/ust-wire-saw/p/1399620?channel=shopping&msclkid=4eb928a24b67152fc02b4a9804c674fb&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing - Shopping - Catch-All&utm_term=4580221853516784&utm_content=Shopping - Catch-All

 

 

 

[BEAT_NAVY]

Creativity wins wars. definitely could have used it as that if needed but your right that it is a wire saw

13 minutes ago, doyler said:

 

 

ummm.. this is a typical wire saw. Not uncommon to find in survival kits and still available today at surplus, camping and sporting goods stores. Had a couple when I was a kid.

 

 

https://www.sportsmans.com/camping-gear-supplies/safety-survival/axes-saws-shovels-shears/saws/ust-wire-saw/p/1399620?channel=shopping&msclkid=4eb928a24b67152fc02b4a9804c674fb&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing - Shopping - Catch-All&utm_term=4580221853516784&utm_content=Shopping - Catch-All

 

 

 

 

[TGAZ]

5 hours ago, Outtair said:

This is a Garrote carried by Robert Jewell SFG/SOG early Vietnam. He said they were used for silent killing. I have seen other pictures on the forum showing this in survival kits and mentioned that they were saws. If so apparently they were adapted for other uses.

 

Tim

 

This is a wire saw and was part of our mandatory gear list in our survival kits. 

[doyler]

1 hour ago, BEAT_NAVY said:

Creativity wins wars. definitely could have used it as that if needed but your right that it is a wire saw

 

 

maybe but you couldnt get much leverage with just a finger in each ring if some one is not cooperating.... not to mention if you crossed it over it would cut the sh*i*t out of the users hands.

[digi-shots]

I guess someone could have had other purposes for this hand saw… I wouldn’t want to mess with it… those teeth look sharp!

[e19]

1 hour ago, doyler said:

 

maybe but you couldnt get much leverage with just a finger in each ring if some one is not cooperating.... not to mention if you crossed it over it would cut the sh*i*t out of the users hands.

Yup!  That saw would far less effective than piano wire, and it’s a bit shorter than ideal.  Sawing motion isn’t part garroting, technique.

[digi-shots]

Since this thread is still alive, I’ll post one more addition (thought I had already posted it).

 

The “Liberator” or “FP-45” in .45 caliber, smoothbore.

 

These were made by General Motors Guide Lamp Division in 1942 at a cost of slightly over $1.71 per pistol.  They were shipped to the Frankford Arsenal where they were packaged with 10 rounds of ammo, a pictorial instruction sheet and a wooden ejector rod for a total cost of $2.10.  The Liberator had a useful range of about 25 yards.

 

The photo in the book “OSS Weapons” was taken in 1945 by the author, John Brunner, near OSS Headquarters in China.

[kaotikross]

10 hours ago, Outtair said:

This is a Garrote carried by Robert Jewell SFG/SOG early Vietnam. He said they were used for silent killing. I have seen other pictures on the forum showing this in survival kits and mentioned that they were saws. If so apparently they were adapted for other uses.

 

Tim

A stick through the ring, loop, start twisting

 

[HD-Ghost]

I recently spoke with the owner of High Standard, and they had refurbished 200 of the suppressed pistol for the government (still in inventory).  Wouldn't say which department.

[kwill]

3 hours ago, HD-Ghost said:

I recently spoke with the owner of High Standard, and they had refurbished 200 of the suppressed pistol for the government (still in inventory).  Wouldn't say which department.

When?  Refurbished the pistols or the silencers or both?

[HD-Ghost]

Refurbished both the pistols and silencers; recently.

[Ronnie]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:46 PM, HD-Ghost said:

I recently spoke with the owner of High Standard, and they had refurbished 200 of the suppressed pistol for the government (still in inventory).  Wouldn't say which department.

Probably the IRS.....hahahahahahah!

[johnsonlmg41]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:46 PM, HD-Ghost said:

I recently spoke with the owner of High Standard, and they had refurbished 200 of the suppressed pistol for the government (still in inventory).  Wouldn't say which department.

I know of one agency that has at least one of them on display in their museum.  I'd guess they had more?  Not sure why you need to refurb that which  has never likely been used?  Doubtful the used ones ever made it back to the office?

[HD-Ghost]

I know SF used them in Nam.  That was a nasty environment.  After 80 years, every gun needs a cleaning and a once over.