Found my first Multicam uniforms and honestly I'm not all that impressed.

[Manchu Warrior]

Let me start by saying that I have not seen much in the way of Multicam uniforms in my neck of the woods. The few pieces that I Have seen looked faded and washed out so I passed until I could find a better set. With that said I found a couple of brand new sets with tags on them this weekend that are dated 2010. I was actually surprised with what I found. The problem is that these brand new ones also looked faded in spots almost as if the ink was running dry, is this by design and if so why? I'm really not all that impressed with them because the coloring just looks really shoddy. I also have a pair of Multicam pants that I picked up in a thrift store a few months back. They were made by Propper in Honduras, or somewhere in that part of the world, and the only reason I purchased them is because they were new. The reason I brought them up is because they honestly seem better made then the US Army issued sets that I found. Any information is appreciated.

[Patchcollector]

Are you certain that they are brand new?It would be fairly easy to re-tag them.

[Teamski]

Are you sure you have multicam or OCP? OCP is noticibly more faded looking. Remember, even multicam is not sharp or bright.....

 

-Ski

[Mr.Jerry]

From what I have seen, the camo "fading" is actually a design part of the camo, and was kind of hard to get a "gradient" look. One of my Army Ranger friends was part of some multi-cam testing at some point and had some photos of it in use in variety of situations, where it was much more effective than then digital stuff. I know there was some screwing around with multi vs. scorpion as ski mentioned.

[Matthew1945]

Are you sure you have multicam or OCP? OCP is noticibly more faded looking. Remember, even multicam is not sharp or bright.....

 

-Ski

Actually, MultiCam is the more faded of the two. You can also tell by the cut of the jacket that it's OEF-CP/MultiCam, official Army issue OCP ACU's (Both OCP FRACU/OCP ACU) have a fold down collar and zipper shoulder pockets. Official MultiCam (OEF-CP ACU) still retain the Mandarin Collar found on the UCP ACU's. Though I have found many OEF-CP/MultiCam pieces of gear marked as OCP and Propper even came out with a MultiCam jacket cut like the new OCP ACUs. To answer OP's question, MultiCam does have some elements that are purposely "faded". This also has to do with the material of the jacket being made out of that rayon blend, which causes all colors of the camo to be duller than the Nylon/Cotton Blends.

[RedLegGI]

They look to be new and unfaded. When they fade, they get more of a lighter "tan" sheen over them. These are multicam as the pocket still has flaps as opposed to a zipper pocket and one large piece of velcro. I would have gladly taken this over ACU any day when I was in, but they were only doing a test issue in Afghanistan while I was in Iraq.

[RedLegGI]

Here are some used uniforms from Fort Campbell:

[Manchu Warrior]

Honestly, I have no idea what I have so I added the pics of the tags. As far as the chance of someone putting tags on used uniforms I wouldn't think that was the case simply because I only paid $10.00 per set. So, I don't believe there was any deception on the sellers part. The size is Medium-Short so its not as if they are X-Small Short and therefore hard to sell. The Velcro is also in to good of shape and I can tell by the the crispness of the tags in the uniform that they have not been washed. They also had the patch sets in the pockets and they don't look as if they have been washed. I appreciate the comments as well as any other further info on the uniforms. Thanks!!

[Manchu Warrior]

Last pics.

[doyler]

+1...there is no reason to retag a multi cam uniform.there is no shortage of them

[32sbct]

They are new standard issue multicam FRACU uniforms, and yes they look faded even when new. They may not impress you, but it's an excellent camo pattern that works well in a variety of environments and it's the most functional combat uniform I wore over the course of a thirty year career. It may not be pretty, but it works, and that's what counts.

[Manchu Warrior]

They are new standard issue multicam FRACU uniforms, and yes they look faded even when new. They may not impress you, but it's an excellent camo pattern that works well in a variety of environments and it's the most functional combat uniform I wore over the course of a thirty year career. It may not be pretty, but it works, and that's what counts.

You are right they don't impress me and I will tell you why. I will have to go back to the first thing I ever learned in basic training or I should I say what I learned at the 30th Reception Battalion before I even went down range at Fort Benning. I will even tell on myself I was a medical as well as a dental hold over at the 30th and I also failed my first PT test. With that said I was there for a longer then usual stay and how did we spend most of our time? We spent most our time shining boots and ironing our BDU's. Because taking pride in our uniforms was pounded into our heads and we were pulled up on it all the time. And that is about the only quality thing that I took away from my time at the 30th AG.

 

I repeatedly heard that there was no such thing as a field uniform and first impressions are lasting and I was representing the US Army so look as good as you can while dong so. With all that said in my opinion its hard to take pride in the way a uniform looks when it looks like crap off the rack. Honestly it looks as if its half done and I can't imagine how much money was spent coming up with a design that looks half done.

 

I also know they could have done better because the civilian Propper pants that I spoke of earlier look much better and much crisper then the Propper pants with the issued set that I have. And they were made in the Dominican Republic. I have to ask how can a company make two pairs of pants that seem to be so different in quality? It doesn't make much sense to me. In closing I will say that I'm still partial to the BDU's and I still don't understand why they got rid of them. Especially when they went to that awful ACU Universal Pattern. Because in all the time I spent in the US Army I never remember being in a gray environment.

[RedLegGI]

You are right they don't impress me and I will tell you why. I will have to go back to the first thing I ever learned in basic training or I should I say what I learned at the 30th Reception Battalion before I even went down range at Fort Benning. I will even tell on myself I was a medical as well as a dental hold over at the 30th and I also failed my first PT test. With that said I was there for a longer then usual stay and how did we spend most of our time? We spent most our time shining boots and ironing our BDU's. Because taking pride in our uniforms was pounded into our heads and we were pulled up on it all the time. And that is about the only quality thing that I took away from my time at the 30th AG.

 

I repeatedly heard that there was no such thing as a field uniform and first impressions are lasting and I was representing the US Army so look as good as you can while dong so. With all that said in my opinion its hard to take pride in the way a uniform looks when it looks like crap off the rack. Honestly it looks as if its half done and I can't imagine how much money was spent coming up with a design that looks half done.

 

I also know they could have done better because the civilian Propper pants that I spoke of earlier look much better and much crisper then the Propper pants with the issued set that I have. And they were made in the Dominican Republic. I have to ask how can a company make two pairs of pants that seem to be so different in quality? It doesn't make much sense to me. In closing I will say that I'm still partial to the BDU's and I still don't understand why they got rid of them. Especially when they went to that awful ACU Universal Pattern. Because in all the time I spent in the US Army I never remember being in a gray environment.

 

Whats worse is that OCP was in competition with ACU and somehow lost. I'll never understand that decision.

 

[32sbct]

You are right they don't impress me and I will tell you why. I will have to go back to the first thing I ever learned in basic training or I should I say what I learned at the 30th Reception Battalion before I even went down range at Fort Benning. I will even tell on myself I was a medical as well as a dental hold over at the 30th and I also failed my first PT test. With that said I was there for a longer then usual stay and how did we spend most of our time? We spent most our time shining boots and ironing our BDU's. Because taking pride in our uniforms was pounded into our heads and we were pulled up on it all the time. And that is about the only quality thing that I took away from my time at the 30th AG.

 

I repeatedly heard that there was no such thing as a field uniform and first impressions are lasting and I was representing the US Army so look as good as you can while dong so. With all that said in my opinion its hard to take pride in the way a uniform looks when it looks like crap off the rack. Honestly it looks as if its half done and I can't imagine how much money was spent coming up with a design that looks half done.

 

I also know they could have done better because the civilian Propper pants that I spoke of earlier look much better and much crisper then the Propper pants with the issued set that I have. And they were made in the Dominican Republic. I have to ask how can a company make two pairs of pants that seem to be so different in quality? It doesn't make much sense to me. In closing I will say that I'm still partial to the BDU's and I still don't understand why they got rid of them. Especially when they went to that awful ACU Universal Pattern. Because in all the time I spent in the US Army I never remember being in a gray environment.

 

Why did they get rid of BDU's? Because all of the coat pockets were covered when wearing body armor. The design did not work with the newer gear. As in all wars, the uniforms and gear were improved based on feedback from the field.

 

Why was the UCP pattern chosen? You got me on that one. No one knows that answer, but it was useless as camouflage.

 

Why don't we spend time polishing boots and pressing uniforms? Because an Army at war doesn't have time for that. One other item, anyone who said there is no such thing as a field uniform either never spent time in the field or had lots if cash for new uniforms. I took just as much pride wearing a FRACU multicam as I did wearing a starched and pressed BDU with gleaming jump boots. At the end of the day its not the uniform, but the Soldier who wears it that counts.

[Manchu Warrior]

 

Why did they get rid of BDU's? Because all of the coat pockets were covered when wearing body armor. The design did not work with the newer gear. As in all wars, the uniforms and gear were improved based on feedback from the field.

 

Why was the UCP pattern chosen? You got me on that one. No one knows that answer, but it was useless as camouflage.

 

Why don't we spend time polishing boots and pressing uniforms? Because an Army at war doesn't have time for that. One other item, anyone who said there is no such thing as a field uniform either never spent time in the field or had lots if cash for new uniforms. I took just as much pride wearing a FRACU multicam as I did wearing a starched and pressed BDU with gleaming jump boots. At the end of the day its not the uniform, but the Soldier who wears it that counts.

Honestly I wasn't going to respond but then I felt a need to defend myself. But, I will get to that latter and therefore I will start from the beginning.

 

If the location of the pockets on the BDU's were an issue here is a novel concept why not move them? And if they were basing there decision on feedback from the field they must not have talked to the Seals. After all they are the ones that had been modifying both the BDU and DCU uniform for quite sometime and it seemed to work for them. So, why not just make the modified Seal uniform standard issue? They also went way beyond just changing the camo pattern they also changed the material. I have wonder who's brilliant idea that happened to be?

 

I say that because I still happen to have a couple of sets of BDU's from way back in my basic training days. I know because they still have the number 217 written in them, my roster number from my time on Sand Hill. They have faded but they are still pretty serviceable. I bring that up because I never wore the Universal Pattern but I wanted a set for my collection. With that said I was at an auction and there were two duffle bags full of the UCP uniforms. So, I purchased them.

 

When I took them to the laundry mat to wash them I was rather surprised. Because overall they really didn't look all that worn out. But out of the twenty plus uniforms there were only two pair of pants that didn't have the crotch blown out on them. With the information I have gathered that was an going issue with the UCP uniform as well as the Velcro wearing out rather quickly. So, I will ask why fix something that wasn't broken? Because I'm of the opinion that what ever the BDU uniform was made out of it was damn near indestructible.That is not even taking into account how awful the pattern looked.

 

That first caught my attention when I was looking at photos of soldiers doing the "Manchu Mile" in the ROK with the UCP uniform on. I was bewildered because the soldiers looked like human size targets for the North Koreans with that crap on and who's brilliant idea was that? My point being is if the pockets were an issue that is one thing and you could simply move them, But, there was nothing wrong with the Woodland pattern in the ROK so why change it? There was also no question about their durability and It just makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

I'm a little out order because I will first touch on the matter of the field uniform. I will speak for myself and with that said it didn't matter if my uniform was covered in grease from changing a road wheel on an M113 while on the 38th Parallel or if my uniform was covered with that white crystallized sweat stains from building a Scud bunker or if it smelled like diesel fuel and mogas from my time burning human waste in the deserts of the Middle East. To put it simply I wasn't expected to show in formation with either of those uniforms on. That is if it could be helped but my chain of command wasn't big on excuses.

 

I will say that when my unit was ordered to the Middle East we were issued two sets of Winter weight DCU's. We had no access to a shower for the first two months we were there and we never had access to a washing machine. So, what did we have? We had bottled water with a bucket, laundry detergent and a piece a rope for a cloth line. And we were still expected to keep up some level of acceptable appearance. To make it clear I worked for our Battalion Master Gunner in the S3 and we had leadership of all levels as well as different Nations coming and going at the TOC. That was the main reason for our attempt to keep up a decent appearance.

 

Not to get to far off track but I do recall what I thought was a rather odd occurrence. What it was we were called to formation by our Battalion S3. We were all in PT uniforms and half of them had those crusty white sweat stains on them. So, what ever the formation was about went out the window and instead we were all ordered to take off the uniforms and we then had a slot of Sergeants Time training on the proper way to wash a PT uniform. It was one of those moments that I found myself asking why I had ever enlisted in the US Army.

 

I know I can get rather long winded so I will try to finish this up. So, I will go back to why I felt a need to defend myself. I said that because I truly don't understand how you twisted what I said about shining boots into me in someway insinuating that you or any other soldiers don't or didn't take pride in wearing their uniform regardless of what camo pattern it was or what material it happened to be made of. Because simply put I never said that and I never intended to say that. I simply stated what we did and I'm sure soldiers shining boots went on long before I got to the 30th AG and I'm just as sure that it went for a long time after I had left. And since they no longer shine boots or press uniforms I'm also sure that have found some other way to instill pride of uniform in the Joe's that I assume still have a lot spare time while hanging out around the 30th AG.

 

Honestly I will say that I believe that you somehow misunderstood my point. Because I was never questioning any soldiers level of pride but I will say I question who ever decided that the Multcam was the best choice. I don't understand the decision process especially after many thousands or hundreds of thousands or possibly even millions of dollars were spent on the decision to a have uniform pattern that looks half done? It literally has lines in parts of the camo were it looks as if the ink was running out. And I was in the printing industry for a big part of my life and that was never a good hing. I really just cannot understand what was going on when what looks like a half done product was presented to whoever made the decision. Was the material in a big sheet or is was already in uniform form with a soldier and I have wonder who made the decision that they were actually looking a for a half faded uniform that gets even worse after only one or two washings. Again it really makes no sense to me.

 

In the end I just believe that they could have done a much better job and I also believe that I have read way way to much into it. Simply because what can anyone expect from a system that somehow thought the UCP uniform was a great idea? It really is rather bizarre to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[32sbct]

Manchu, no need to defend yourself there was no attack intended. That's the problem with writing a post, sometimes it does not come out as intended. Actually, I was just trying to answer some of the questions you asked. We actually have a lot in common. I also went through OSUT at Fort Benning but did my time at Harmony Church. You spent time in the 2nd ID and I was with 3/2 SBCT in Iraq in 2004 and wore the 2nd ID patch on my right Soldier for the remainder of my career.

 

I felt qualified to answer your questions since I wore all the uniforms being discussed, the BDU from 1985-2006, the DCU in Iraq, the UCP ACU from 2006-2014, and both versions of the OCP ACU from 2014-2017. My only point is that you are making some pretty harsh judgments on uniforms and gear you never wore. Fair enough, we all have opinions. But if you get a chance take a look at pictures of our Soldiers in Afghanistan /Iraq/Syria and how well that pattern works there. Having worn all of those uniforms, I can tell you that this is the most effective camouflage pattern I wore in my career. It may not look like much, but it works, at that's what matters most down range.

[Manchu Warrior]

Manchu, no need to defend yourself there was no attack intended. That's the problem with writing a post, sometimes it does not come out as intended. Actually, I was just trying to answer some of the questions you asked. We actually have a lot in common. I also went through OSUT at Fort Benning but did my time at Harmony Church. You spent time in the 2nd ID and I was with 3/2 SBCT in Iraq in 2004 and wore the 2nd ID patch on my right Soldier for the remainder of my career.

 

I felt qualified to answer your questions since I wore all the uniforms being discussed, the BDU from 1985-2006, the DCU in Iraq, the UCP ACU from 2006-2014, and both versions of the OCP ACU from 2014-2017. My only point is that you are making some pretty harsh judgments on uniforms and gear you never wore. Fair enough, we all have opinions. But if you get a chance take a look at pictures of our Soldiers in Afghanistan /Iraq/Syria and how well that pattern works there. Having worn all of those uniforms, I can tell you that this is the most effective camouflage pattern I wore in my career. It may not look like much, but it works, at that's what matters most down range.

Maybe I should have said I wanted to explain myself instead of saying defend myself. With that said I don't believe I was being to harsh and I will also say that I'm in no way questioning the functionality or the durability of the Multicam uniform. Because I'm never going to wear one for any reason so I will never know from personal use. I was strictly talking about the way it looks. Because I look at the USAF ABU and I really like the Tiger Stripe look, my son picked up a few sets for me that were never paid for at the dry cleaners when he was stationed at Kadena. So, I had them early on. I look at the Navy's NWU uniform and its nice and dark with no fading and then of course my personnel favorite which is the USMC's Marpat uniform. That is one bad rump uniform in my opinion. And then there is the US Army. First they come out with the goofy Universal Pattern and then the next pattern comes out looking like its half done. For what ever reason none of other patterns look half done and to make it clear I do like the Multicam pattern, that is the part that I can see. The others also feel as if they are better made. So simply put I just believe they could have done a much better job. And in reality it may be just Army pride on my part and I guess I shouldn't let it bother me. But, it honestly does irritate me, that's it. By the way thank you for your service and have a good one!!

 

[AK101]

IMO the quality and especially the service life of the issued 'multicams' when compared to BDU's is absolute crap IMO

 

Only ones I have worth a damn are a set of the field shirt and trousers Crye put out long before they really ever made anything...

[taucco]

It is also to be noted that the FRACU's (so the ones in the first post) are primarily designed as a combat uniform, so they are made in a fire resistant material that looks fuzzy. Same applies to Marine FROG uniforms and the old UCP FRACUs .

 

The new issue Operational Camouflage Pattern (Scorpion W2) looks more crisp due to the non flame resistant material.

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Keep in mind that both of these have been used and washed.

[RedLegGI]

MulticamsResize.jpg

Keep in mind that both of these have been used and washed.

 

Whats hilarious to me is that the only difference in the pattern is that Multicam has vertical lines and OCP doesn't.

[Manchu Warrior]

I appreciate the comments and information. Thanks!

[Badwolf]

Hey there folks! Thought this comparison photo would be appropriate here. Right is a commercial ACU (Propper I think), while left is a government ACU, from before 2014 (best guess as without a DLA, I don't know how to date ACUs). The government item was either unissued or barely used, as the fabric is still stiff, Velcro is in really good condition, and there is almost no fading on it. At least from what I've seen, there's not really much of a difference in the pattern between the two items, though I'd certainly agree with everyone else's sentiments that there is a qualitative difference in the fabric.

For one thing, the fabric weight on the commercial item is definitely thicker. I'd guess that this is probably due to how commercial producers tended to utilize fabric weights from the older temperate BDUs, while the Army retained the lighter weight fabric from the Enhanced Hot Weather BDUs. Given that for the older BDUs, this affected fading and coloration, as well as durability, I'd suggest that might be a good reason why Army items might look shoddier in pattern, if the difference is not in it's use. I'm really just guessing on that though.

The other thing I'd point to though is what was mentioned previously - the FR materials in the fabric. I've noticed that when compared with commercial items, or even with the similar British MTP, US Multicams tend to have more of a reddish tint when they've been used more (black parts are less visible, browner streaks are much more prevalent). It reminds me of the Aircrew BDUs, which seemed to also fade the same way. If anything, I'd certainly say that is a major difference affecting not only the quality, but pattern of the ACUs.

I remember reading somewhere that the FRACUs were not really meant to last long, something like 6 months to a year. If that is true, I think it probably would explain some things as well, especially when soldiers are noting issues in crotch stitching and the durability of the pattern. I still think though that the OEF-CP ACUs, as well as the newer uniforms are improvements over the older ACUs, and while my preference tends to be with BDUs, I still think they are interesting in their own right. Almost similar to the experience of ERDLs between the OG-107 uniform and the BDU.

[Badwolf]

Also, figure this thread might be of some interest, similar in topic

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/239555-commercial-vs-issued-multicamscorpionocp/