Government Issue Posted September 8, 2017 Share #101 Posted September 8, 2017 After seeing Doyler's post on Mike Strank, I decided to see what Raider battalion he was in and found that he too was at the Russell Islands because he was with the 3rd Raiders and served with them through Bougainville until they were disbanded in early '44.http://www.militaryhallofhonor.com/honoree-record.php?id=3125 He apparently transferred to the 3rd Raider Bn from the 22nd Marine Regt. in Sept. of 42 on the island of Uvea. I think that first photo of the raiders in a rubber boat was taken while the battalion trained prior to going in at the Russell Islands. Here's a summary of the unit's involvement: http://usmarineraiders.org/about-the-raiders/history/raider-chronology/raider-chronology-3rd-marine-raider-battalion/ This pic Doyler posted of Mike is really interesting. For one, it looks cropped as there was someone directly to his right. Wonder who that was? He hand camo'd his dungarees with paint and, as Doyler stated, has the same type of helmet set up. If I remember right, I think some of the earlier M1 helmets had a longer chin strap so guys just knotted them to make them shorter to their liking. One of the M1 helmet books has sidebar write up on it, but it escapes me which book it was at the moment. More incoming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Government Issue Posted September 8, 2017 Share #102 Posted September 8, 2017 Now the next part here is all new photos, however we're going to run into a little photography faux pas so to speak. I've been collecting WWII AP photographs for going on five years now and have come to realize that many photos published even today concerning WWII do not caption them correctly. In almost every case, unless you have an actual AP photo with the caption, it is hard to determine if the photo is correctly within context. Where this gets a bit confusing is that the book From Makin to Bougainville by Major John T. Hoffman, USMCR uses some of these photos and provides more context than the USMC University website. The University has a pdf of the book available to read for free at this link:https://www.usmcu.edu/sites/default/files/HD/Publications/From%20Makin%20to%20Bougainville-Marine%20Raiders%20in%20the%20Pacific%20War%20PCN%2019000313000.pdf I'll be citing captions from the book with cited page numbers alongside what the University site says. Also, there are some photos in the book which the University has not found nor digitized as of yet. Department of Defense Photo (USMC) 54468 "The 3rd Raider Battalion squad pulls its boat into cover on Pavavu and heads inland." (p.26) From Makin to Bougainville It's hard to tell from the resized photo but if you take a look at it in the pdf of the book you can tell that the Raiders in the foreground have the nets/burlap. https://www.usmcu.edu/hdphotos/Raiders?page=19 Official US Marine Corps Photo #54473 according to usmcu.edu or Department of Defense Photo (USMC) 54473 according to Makin "Raider patrol on Russell Island" usmcu.edu "As the Raider skirmish line maneuvers catiously through the coconut groves and keeps an eye out for snipers in the treetops, it is also wary of enemy combatants." (p.26) From Makin to Bougainville Close up of the Automatic Rifleman nearest to the camera man reveals that he too has a similar helmet configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Government Issue Posted September 8, 2017 Share #103 Posted September 8, 2017 A couple more photos. Official US Marine Corps Photo 63165 "Marine Raiders crouch in jungle." usmcu.edu (no date) "Demolition men of the 3rd Raider Battalion landed on Torokina island on 3 November, but found that supporting arms had already killed or driven off all Japanese." (p.37) From Makin to Bougainville Note that the BAR man (looking into camera), Raider with the M1 rifle, and the Raider with the carbine (also looking at camera) all have the net/burlap. The overwhelming evidence so far is that it seems that the helmet in your collection likely belonged to a Raider from the 3rd Battalion. However, there's one photo that demonstrates that theory may not be rock solid. Department of Defense Photo (USMC) 54650 "A Raider mortar crew goes into action on New Georgia. Because the Raider had no heavier weapons, their initial efforts at Bairoko were mostly unsuccessful." (p. 33) From Makin To Bougainville The 3rd Raiders were never at Bairoko, but the 4th and 1st were, yet we can clearly see burlap, net, and wire on the mortar crew's pots. By this time the 1st and 4th Raider Battalions were united into the 1st Marine Raider Regiment (which was at Bairoko) and the 2nd and 3rd were organized into the 2nd Regiment (which would land at Bougainville). Is the photo correctly captioned? Maybe, maybe not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Government Issue Posted September 8, 2017 Share #104 Posted September 8, 2017 This is the last photo I came across by accident over at M1pencils blog. I was scrolling through his set up for a navy corpsman on Bougainville when I noticed another one. https://m1pencil.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/navy-corpsman-bougainville-1943/ The blog author states that the photo is from Bougainville and he believes they're Raiders from the 2nd Battalion, but since the 3rd was there too and they were absolved into a Regimental unit it could be either. Original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Government Issue Posted September 8, 2017 Share #105 Posted September 8, 2017 Close Up At first I thought it was just a net but then I took a closer look at the lip of the lid and you can make out a certain thickness and puckering to it that looks like burlap or another material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share #106 Posted September 8, 2017 A couple more photos. Official US Marine Corps Photo 63165 resized_RAIDERS 63165.jpg "Marine Raiders crouch in jungle." usmcu.edu (no date) "Demolition men of the 3rd Raider Battalion landed on Torokina island on 3 November, but found that supporting arms had already killed or driven off all Japanese." (p.37) From Makin to Bougainville Note that the BAR man (looking into camera), Raider with the M1 rifle, and the Raider with the carbine (also looking at camera) all have the net/burlap. The overwhelming evidence so far is that it seems that the helmet in your collection likely belonged to a Raider from the 3rd Battalion. However, there's one photo that demonstrates that theory may not be rock solid. Department of Defense Photo (USMC) 54650 resized_Screen Shot 2017-09-07 at 11.03.43 PM.png resized_Screen Shot 2017-09-07 at 11.03.58 PM.png "A Raider mortar crew goes into action on New Georgia. Because the Raider had no heavier weapons, their initial efforts at Bairoko were mostly unsuccessful." (p. 33) From Makin To Bougainville The 3rd Raiders were never at Bairoko, but the 4th and 1st were, yet we can clearly see burlap, net, and wire on the mortar crew's pots. By this time the 1st and 4th Raider Battalions were united into the 1st Marine Raider Regiment (which was at Bairoko) and the 2nd and 3rd were organized into the 2nd Regiment (which would land at Bougainville). Is the photo correctly captioned? Maybe, maybe not? Wow That's is an amazing amount of information and the photos really speak for them selves. G issue I can't thankyou enough ! So we are thinking my raider helmet is feom The 3rd raider battalion , some of those pics the helmets are identical to mine. D.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share #107 Posted September 8, 2017 Side by side comaprrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted September 8, 2017 Share #108 Posted September 8, 2017 Amazing photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share #109 Posted September 8, 2017 Pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share #110 Posted September 9, 2017 Amazing photos! Agreed thankyou G issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 9, 2017 Share #111 Posted September 9, 2017 Dean this is another great helmet you've found. Ronnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share #112 Posted September 9, 2017 Dean this is another great helmet you've found. Ronnie Thanks Ronnie That's very kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share #113 Posted November 18, 2017 Going through my reference books Ive found another great image of burlap covers being used by raiders . The marine on the left is wearing one exactly the same as mine with a wide net and a wire band. What else is interesting is the thing green Camo covered packs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G Posted November 18, 2017 Share #114 Posted November 18, 2017 Excuse me or hijacking your thread. Back in the early 1980s I frequently haunted the local estate sales looking for "German stuff", not having much interest in U.S. stuff. I was known as the "military" guy because all the folks in line at the estate sales, mainly dealers, only bought in their particular genres. You have to remember this was before eBay so jewelry people bought jewelry, furniture people bought furniture. The doors opened, everyone crammed into the house and went searching for their particular specialty. A furniture dealer hollered from the next room "Hey Dave, there's an old helmet on this couch I'm buying, do you want it?" Thinking it might be a German helmet I said "Sure!" and kept looking around the house for Nazi treasure. As he and his helper carried the couch out of the room this helmet was on it. Had no idea what it was but it was cool enough I didn't think twice about paying the $5 or $10 dollars. As a postscript, after eBay got it's claws into the collecting world circa 1995, the estate sale scene changed. Jewelry dealers started buying all those wings and medals in the jewelry cases at sales; furniture buyers would buy militaria. Everyone became my competition but it was good while it lasted. The picture isn't great but you get the idea. It's named on the inside "Hess" but I couldn't find anyone by that name in the Raider roster. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted November 18, 2017 Share #115 Posted November 18, 2017 Dave, Your helmet certainly has the characteristics of an early Raider helmet. While the Raider rosters are quite large, they certainly are not complete. Would love to see more of your helmet. This one makes 3 that I have seen around the internet lately. Would love to run across one for my collection one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share #116 Posted November 18, 2017 Dave, Your helmet certainly has the characteristics of an early Raider helmet. While the Raider rosters are quite large, they certainly are not complete. Would love to see more of your helmet. This one makes 3 that I have seen around the internet lately. Would love to run across one for my collection one day! Im guessing the other was the one on the Baystate miltairia forum Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotalus358 Posted November 18, 2017 Share #117 Posted November 18, 2017 Hey, Dean. I think there was a similar one that just sold on Bay State a few weeks ago: http://www.baystatemilitaria.com/WWII/WWIIHeadgear.htm No ID and no wire keeper, but similar with the burlap, applied camo, and net. Sorry for pic size - I pulled them straight from Bay State Militaria's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share #118 Posted November 18, 2017 Hey, Dean. I think there was a similar one that just sold on Bay State a few weeks ago: http://www.baystatemilitaria.com/WWII/WWIIHeadgear.htm No ID and no wire keeper, but similar with the burlap, applied camo, and net. Sorry for pic size - I pulled them straight from Bay State Militaria's website. Yeah thats the one ! Thanks for the pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted November 18, 2017 Share #119 Posted November 18, 2017 Would be cool to get those three together....mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted November 18, 2017 Share #120 Posted November 18, 2017 Surprised so many survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted November 18, 2017 Share #121 Posted November 18, 2017 The one on Baystate was posted here with better quality photos in 2011: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/121115-nice-wwii-burlapcamo-m1-helmet/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted November 18, 2017 Share #122 Posted November 18, 2017 Dave G also posted better quality photos of his helmet here in 2009: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33833-camo-m1-helmets/page-2 Apparently there is similar example to be found on page 368 of Chris Armold's book Painted Steel, but I do not own that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share #123 Posted November 19, 2017 Surprised so many survived. Unfortunately not everyone was lucky enough to survive the war , and most didnt fight the full duration. Im guessing most helmets that made it back stateside where sent home when a marine/soldier was injured or dead Or served his term for his enlistment. Otherwise you get battlefield helmets that have been dug up in varying conditions left in the elements of this world. The burlap covered helmets Im sure are helmets that where sent back to the families or bought back by the vet that was injured. That burlap would not have survived a full term of enlistment and definatly would not have survived being in the ground very long. Lucky to have these rare pieces still in this condition, very lucky D.C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share #124 Posted November 19, 2017 Would be cool to get those three together....mike Now that would be Cool , would love to match the paint used on all 3. In fact I believe that geeen base paint is the same. I also have it on another lid and some field Camo gear D.C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted November 19, 2017 Share #125 Posted November 19, 2017 Yeap. That is it. Im guessing the other was the one on the Baystate miltairia forum Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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