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1914 dated 37th ID tunic, odd collar disks?


THAT GUY

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I recently picked up this 37th ID tunic off ebay. The 1914 date attracted me as did the SSI. 2 questions:

 

1. Does the 1914 stamp appear on anyone elses private purchase originals?

2. What could explain the 35th Infantry Regiment disks? They are the gilt type 1 so this was obviously used further past WW1.

 

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Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

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Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

donation2013.gifdonation2015.gif

 

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Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

donation2013.gifdonation2015.gif

 

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Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

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Garandomatic

I recall the army doing away with rank on both shoulders for the duration of wwi. The fact that this has both, combined with the ssi makes me think postwar use. The 35th infantry makes very little sense to me, as it was never part of the 37th division. Maybe the vet was a lifer, and those disks were his at some point. Otherwise hard to tell.

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WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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littlewilly

The Army utilized whatever uniform items were on hand. The early date is not a concern, nor are the two rank patches. When the AEF went to France in 1917, dual rank insignia was the norm. The reduction to a single rank insignia was ordered in May 1918 to help conserve wool for the growing US Army. Since the rank is Quartermaster it can be a possibility that the man had a soft job and did not wear out his uniform before the end of the war and thus kept the dual rank. Men were not ordered to remove the second rank, it was attrition that brought about the change. The collar discs are a concern and may have been added to the uniform by a previous owner, always a possibility. Gilt discs were not issued to the AEF divisions. The 35th Infantry served on the Mexican border and to my knowledge did not provide men as replacements to the overseas units. My suggestion would be replace the discs with proper US and Quartermaster discs and you will have a nice display tunic. The time frame for the gilt discs comes later, and would have required a corresponding change in buttons to gilt as well, circa 1925 or 1926. MHJ

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Too Much WW1 Militaria

Agree totally with the above. Just to add, sometimes pre-war guard/active soldiers continued to wear two cheverons. Also, the tag is a united garment workers tag.

 

John

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John,

 

That union tag was around pre WW1 if I recall correctly.

 

Sam

Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

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Too Much WW1 Militaria

Sam, thanks..... I know they changed the tag design several times.

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Yeah it is often times confusing. I refer to a few vintage websites.

Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

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From

"The Fedora Lounge"

website

 

The United Garment Workers of America
1891-1994

The United Garment Workers of America was formed in 1891 by ready-made tailors who the Custom Tailor's Union had refused admission. They issued a union label shortly after their organization. In 1896, the UGWA started placing their union label on factory-made made to measure clothes, which the Custom Tailor's Union felt overstepped the jurisdiction of the UGWA union, creating friction between the rival unions. They resolved that the UGWA would have jurisdiction over all non-custom union made garments. In 1994, the UGWA merged into the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union (UFCW).

The United Garment Workers of America tag remained virtually unchanged from its first usage in 1891 until its last in 1994. The most notable change occurred c.1930, when the manufacturer number relocated from the side to the center of the label. The first two label variants date from the first decade of the 20th century. The second two are representative of what was used 1930s-1990s.

Tag from 1903. Note presence of signature of Henry White, General Secretary.
697-0d36f747e86a622f6b51f968a174c952.jpg

Tag from 1908. Slight difference in illustration of hands. In this example, the signature is omitted, though this is likely just for the ad in which this image originally appeared.
698-411c6c9b98806519d48479919603570b.jpg

Depending on what was the tag was on, there could be different background text. Pictured is “clothing- clothing”. Other examples of background text would be “Duck Goods” or “Special Order”.
699-ab5a0d3765a7093f220f49acac5bf837.jpg
Generic variant omitting the background text, used for advertising purposes.
700-c93cb8460e77326500b7ff40af209a38.jpg

Without data, your just another person with an opinion...................

 

Selling DVDs of Ordnance Drawings on ebay seller ID 245thcac
Original Research from Museums and The National Archives
1912 Cavalry Board Report, 1910 Infantry Board Report, Equipment Blueprints and Drawing, Coast Artillery Training Films and 1897 Specifications for Clothing
CHECK THEM OUT

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The union label dates the uniform to around 1930. This would be a time when a lot of dough-boys were starting to have a bit more girth and their original uniforms didn't fit anymore. If this was a private purchase, post WWI uniform, possibly for the VFW, it would explain all the anomalies with this coat.

Without data, your just another person with an opinion...................

 

Selling DVDs of Ordnance Drawings on ebay seller ID 245thcac
Original Research from Museums and The National Archives
1912 Cavalry Board Report, 1910 Infantry Board Report, Equipment Blueprints and Drawing, Coast Artillery Training Films and 1897 Specifications for Clothing
CHECK THEM OUT

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It doesnt explain the pre WW1 pattern with the double row of stitches though. What if it was tailored post WW1 but made pre WW1?

Actively collecting anything from the C Company, 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

 

donation2013.gifdonation2015.gif

 

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If it was tailored after WWI from a Pre WWI coat, it still wouldn't have the Fechheimer manufacturer tag in it. It would have a government contract tag. Nothing says that a coat made in 1930 couldn't be made on a WWI or Pre WWI pattern possibly using surplus fabric. Also the two stamps, the Army didn't date with the year first or have a "Depot #17" in that time period.

Without data, your just another person with an opinion...................

 

Selling DVDs of Ordnance Drawings on ebay seller ID 245thcac
Original Research from Museums and The National Archives
1912 Cavalry Board Report, 1910 Infantry Board Report, Equipment Blueprints and Drawing, Coast Artillery Training Films and 1897 Specifications for Clothing
CHECK THEM OUT

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