Persian Gulf Command Posted March 14, 2017 Share #1 Posted March 14, 2017 http://www.ebay.com/itm/11th-Armored-Division-Shoulder-Patch-Woolie-Original-World-War-II-/112334241610?hash=item1a27a47f4a:g:xTYAAOSwsW9YxzFP This just came up on EBay. Its a shame because the 11th Armored Wool SSI is a scarce patch missing in most collections. What would have been the reason for this to have been done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamarhooten Posted March 14, 2017 Share #2 Posted March 14, 2017 I wouldn't say it was done on purpose. I have had a few loose patches and some still on uniforms that had old age/wear like this. Mostly on 'woolies' and Gemsco ones at that. Your right about the shame it is that it is an 11th Armor one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted March 14, 2017 Share #3 Posted March 14, 2017 This is mine and it is as I received it. I do not believe this damage was intentional but is from wear over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted March 14, 2017 Share #4 Posted March 14, 2017 Time, laundry switching from clothing to clothing lots of reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted March 14, 2017 If the degradation of the black fibers has been observed on armored woolies could this be an explanation why certain numbers are scarce? I have been told by several patch collectors that the 7th, 11th, 13th, among others are seldom seen. Here is a close up of my 11th I don't see anything unusual in the fibers or stitching but I know little about these matters. 11th Woolie Front: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted March 14, 2017 11th Woolie Reverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted March 14, 2017 Share #7 Posted March 14, 2017 The same company(ies) made the woolies. Contracts called for them being made in similar numbers, except apparently for the post war divs and of course, the period tank bns and armored groups. As far as "rarity," the only armor woolie known to be MIA is the III Armored Corps. Too many collectors gotta have it ALL now, and if they don't have it all now, rumors get started. This is just a wear anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 14, 2017 Share #8 Posted March 14, 2017 Buy the patch and "restore" it.Someone good at needle point or embroidery can fill it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted March 15, 2017 Share #9 Posted March 15, 2017 Buy the patch and "restore" it.Someone good at needle point or embroidery can fill it in. Yes, please buy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfields Posted March 16, 2017 Share #10 Posted March 16, 2017 I wonder if it was purposely done by the original person who wore it. If he were transferred to another armored unit, maybe he somehow attempted to remove the '11' rather than buy new patches and have them resewn in order to save a few bucks and some time. Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 16, 2017 Share #11 Posted March 16, 2017 Im thinking just bug damage looking at the overall patch.The edges look moth chewed. Have had patches with similiar damage.Some place I have a 5th woolie thats seen better days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted March 16, 2017 Share #12 Posted March 16, 2017 Im thinking just bug damage looking at the overall patch.The edges look moth chewed.Have had patches with similiar damage.Some place I have a 5th woolie thats seen better days It is a slam dunk bug case. The dead giveaway is the fact that the numbers' return threads are fully intact. Somebody removing the numbers would have removed the return threading as well.-Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted March 16, 2017 Share #13 Posted March 16, 2017 .. The back of the same patch..... -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted March 16, 2017 Share #14 Posted March 16, 2017 Um....bugs don't eat rayon. Those are not wool cables on the woolie patches, just the mediums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted March 16, 2017 Share #15 Posted March 16, 2017 Um....bugs don't eat rayon. Those are not wool cables on the woolie patches, just the mediums. I am not too sure the black thread used for the numbers isn't cotton. Now the return threads are rayon, but I do think the cables are cotton.... -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROBS Posted March 16, 2017 Share #16 Posted March 16, 2017 I believe the face of the patch to be cotton or silk thread. This is classic silverfish damage IMO. only bug I know of that eats the face of patches like this. -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted March 16, 2017 Share #17 Posted March 16, 2017 Rayon was the choice and standard for cables. Silk was not used. Anyone who tells you "silk" was used - common by dealers selling airborne patches, referring to parachute material - is blowing smoke, is the most polite way to put it. Cotton was initially, e.g. up to approx. 1940, but the increased size of the military ruled that out - cotton was used for all the canvas. Wool was used for other equipment purposes, which ruled out commercially made, govt contract wool patches too deep into the war. And, way back in the 50s, I never knew I would need a degree in textiles to collect patches - and now I need one in bugology? hahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share #18 Posted March 16, 2017 Ski, I'm speculating here but it is possible that the patch was on a uniform when the "11" was picked out as Kim supposed; then the back would not have been touched. This patch has the look of a woolie that was stitched on and then removed leaving the ragged appearance of the edge. There are also signs of insect consumption where insect larva "chomped" on the edge of the wool. Bugs will leave a nice clean crescent shaped mark on the "nipped" edge. Not intending to get too entomological, but when an insect's larva eats a fiber its going for protein found in wool and silk fibers. Very few insect lava will consume cotton, linen, or paper as they are made of cellulous, which is a carbohydrate. Silverfish do eat old paper. I do not believe there are any insects that consume rayon. Rayon is a regenerated fiber made from the cellulous of wood, essentially its a plastic so is considered a synthetic fiber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted March 16, 2017 Share #19 Posted March 16, 2017 Ski, I'm speculating here but it is possible that the patch was on a uniform when the "11" was picked out as Kim supposed; then the back would not have been touched. I think that would be virtually impossible. I am sure you have pulled threads out of a patch at some point. It is almost impossible to remove the front threads of a patch without pulling out at least a couple threads from the reverse. Sure, you can try to cut them, but you would have seen a LOT more black showing through the yellow. The return threads of the numbers are absolutely undisturbed. Just my opinion of course! -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROBS Posted March 17, 2017 Share #20 Posted March 17, 2017 I have a 5th AF patch that's been silverfish eaten on front... so either the threads on these patches are not rayon, or they eat rayon. -Brian Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted March 17, 2017 Share #21 Posted March 17, 2017 Here's a 13th Air Force that is on a pristine Ike. Pretty eaten up! -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share #22 Posted March 17, 2017 I did a search on Rayon and it is biodegradable, being made of wood cellulose. I'm agreeing with the silverfish being the Agent of Destruction. Also Ski's statements about the removal of the numbers without disturbing the back make sense. I still think it was a shame this happened to an 11th. And good luck to 36-tex with the sale because very few of these 11th woolies are ever offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted March 18, 2017 Share #23 Posted March 18, 2017 In my opinion, I feel this was done by the hand of human. The missing 11 area looks too clean. Also, if the silverfish ate the black thread on number 11 why didn't they eat the other black thread? I know I'm not a forensic scientist (once, I did stay at a Holiday Inn) but it looks intentional to me. On the other side of my thoughts, I have seen silverfish and beetles (not The Beatles) have a very selective eating process and completely eat around patches leaving very strange patterns. So I guess anything is possible. I'm just leaning towards a man made change due to a unit transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share #24 Posted March 18, 2017 Just saw this come up for sale. I would find in the favor of bugs on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds308 Posted March 18, 2017 Share #25 Posted March 18, 2017 Those bugs weren't picky. They ate all colors. Finally, bugs that don't discriminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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