Jump to content

U.S. Medals Bars


Ricardo

Recommended Posts

Frankly I find it user unfriendly compared to other similar services on the net.

 

Let me know who they are so I can take a look and see what they do that might also work here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Nice pics, all. Here's my favorite. NA grad 1929 to USMC; Naval Aviator 1931; Fighter pilot in Nicaragua 1932-has 2nd Nic & Nic Cross of Valor; UK in 1941 studying Brits, Pioneer Night fighter pilot C.O. VMF(N)-531 has 4 kills at night Bird Colonel in 1944. Chief of Staff 1st MAW in Korea - shot down 1952 - ranking USMC POW. Signed phony Germ Warfare confession - end of career. Remained in Corps for 30 years. Advanced to BGen on retired list upon retirement. All medals fully documented. I'm inclined to believe that he personally mounted these based on style, ribbons, devices, etc that came with the collection. I've included 2 ribbon bar pics for continuity. Enjoy. Semper Fi!

Schwable_2nd_pic_top.jpg

Schwable_2nd_pic_bottom.jpg

Schwable_rib_bar_only.jpg

Here they are. I reshot the pics. As they say, "Size does matter"

Bob

Link to post
Share on other sites
Are those Frank Schwable's? I think that is a great set of medals, Mark.

Yes...BGen (ret) Frank H. Schwable USMC

Link to post
Share on other sites

I pretty much stick with collecting KIA medals, so this is one of only a very small handful of bar mounted full sized sets of any kind that I have, and is the only mini set I have. With that said, when I got a call from a lady about these and then went and looked at them, I of course had to add them to my collection!

 

He was a career Navy man, served from January 1942 through February 1967, and when he passed on his wife ended up with them, then she passed on, no one in the family wanted them so they went to a family friend, and then from there to the lady I got them from; she got them from the family friend because the family friend knew she was a history fanatic and might like them, she in turn passed them on to me as she was moving and did not want to have to pack up the medals and a few other odds and ends of his that she also had gotten.

 

I have not confirmed it yet, but I strongly suspect his two Purple Heart awards were for his Korean War service with the 5th Marine Regiment of the 1st Marine Division, but I am not sure when / where in Korea he was wounded. I am still working on that research, but do know for sure he served with the 5th Marines.

 

Anyway, it does not have some of the high end medals that others in this post do, but I think it is a somewhat uncommon one since it was to a Korean War USMC Corpsman. Interesting, as in some of the other posts, what he did not have mounted full sized, he left his Korean Service Medal off the full sized bar mount, in spite of continuing on in the Navy for an additional 10+ years after Korea.

 

Mike

 

post-440-1175740248.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

And hats off to those that run this forum for not making me size and resize attached images so they fit on this forum! Its a pet peeve of mine with the WAF!

Link to post
Share on other sites
And hats off to those that run this forum for not making me size and resize attached images so they fit on this forum! Its a pet peeve of mine with the WAF!

 

We do have limits on the total photo file sizes in any one post but beyond that nothing... however we do like to keep in mind that a surprisingly high number of collectors still have dial up connection and may have time to go to lunch while waiting for a page to download, and many folks still use the archaic 800x600 screen resolution settings which means they have to scroll around a lot to see everything. There a very few images that cannot impart all of their detail just fine at a maximum 600 pixels width, and that's a suggested max size.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found that out about the per-post limit during my picture adding to this post, as I could not add one last photo. I think it's great that the images can be the sizes that they are though, so thanks again!

 

 

We do have limits on the total photo file sizes in any one post but beyond that nothing... however we do like to keep in mind that a surprisingly high number of collectors still have dial up connection and may have time to go to lunch while waiting for a page to download, and many folks still use the archaic 800x600 screen resolution settings which means they have to scroll around a lot to see everything. There a very few images that cannot impart all of their detail just fine at a maximum 600 pixels width, and that's a suggested max size.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike

 

I like the USN PH bar mounted set ! Its also nice to get them with the matching minis. Have you tried getting the casualty cards from the Navy Historical Center?

 

Kurt

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes...BGen (ret) Frank H. Schwable USMC

 

 

Hi Bob

 

I bet the number on his 2nd Nic is a low one! Is it 2 digits?

 

Kurt

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Bob

 

I bet the number on his 2nd Nic is a low one! Is it 2 digits?

 

Kurt

It's MNo. 3656. Group has original transmittal letter to him, still a 2/Lt back at Quantico in Aircraft One, dtd 12 January 1934.

Bob

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kurt, I did try the Naval Historical Center, they do not have them for Korea, or they at least did not have his. I do not have the letter in front of me, but I want to say that it said they just to not have them for Korea period. Sort of odd in a way, they have them for all of WW2, with thousands of casualties, but not for Korea, where the USN had relatively few casualties as opposed to the Army and Marines. I did also contact the Marine Historical Department too, on the off chance that they would have recorded a card for his Purple Heart/s since he most likely was serving with the Marines when he was wounded, and they told me they had none for Navy guys, just the Marines.

 

I just completed a second SF-180 request form to the NPRC, this time all I asked for was just the copies of the records related to his awards of the Purple Heart, more specifically the unit he was serving in when wounded, date of wounds, date of award, and awarding unit. We'll see how I come out with this request. Being a career guy, I imagine his records are inches and inches thick, I suspect the NPRC clerk that handled the initial SF-180 request just got lazy and did not want to copy the entire thing, thus just the 1 page "summary of service" I got from them after my first SF-180 on him.

 

Wish me luck thumbsup.gif

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a medal bar in my collection, the vet was a USMC career man, a 'Mustang'. He joined in 1942 and retired in the early '60's. His combat time was in Korea as a 'Backseater' in F7F's and F3D night fighters with VMF(N)-513. He got the ETO medal for training in England on radar. Air Medal has a gold star on it. I'll show the entire grouping one of these days, Mark.

post-527-1175952976.jpg

post-527-1175952992.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
Frank_Smith

Who court mounted these? It looks recently done. Was he from out of the US? It drives me crazy when I see good American groups go overseas only to come back dinked with and their originality lost forever. I didn't see you were parting with you very nice Admiral's group until it was already gone. Did you trade it for this group?

Link to post
Share on other sites
IMPERIAL QUEST
Who court mounted these? It looks recently done. Was he from out of the US? It drives me crazy when I see good American groups go overseas only to come back dinked with and their originality lost forever. I didn't see you were parting with you very nice Admiral's group until it was already gone. Did you trade it for this group?

 

 

From the information I received, all of the medals are period issue strikes on period mounted bars and the PH is officially engraved and numbered, as is the Mexican Border Service Medal (numbered). The fastening device for the Medalbars are screwback, and the ribbon bars have the long pin that was common for that time.

 

The condition of the medals match the condition of the ribbons, so I would think that they have been well-taken care of and stored properly. The person I am trading with told me that all of the medals are 1938 period.

Link to post
Share on other sites
From the information I received, all of the medals are period issue strikes on period mounted bars and the PH is officially engraved and numbered, as is the Mexican Border Service Medal (numbered). The fastening device for the Medalbars are screwback, and the ribbon bars have the long pin that was common for that time.

 

The condition of the medals match the condition of the ribbons, so I would think that they have been well-taken care of and stored properly. The person I am trading with told me that all of the medals are 1938 period.

 

 

The medals are fine and are original , but the Federal issued medals at a minimum were re-ribboned when they were mounted in my opinion.

 

Normally you dont see US Army groups from WWI court mounted which is why you got the above comment.

 

The fact the boxes are still present is what makes me think they were mounted recently . Its not hard to find old bars to mount medals on. Collectors in the UK and Canada do it all the time.

 

Kurt

Link to post
Share on other sites
Who court mounted these? It looks recently done. Was he from out of the US? It drives me crazy when I see good American groups go overseas only to come back dinked with and their originality lost forever. I didn't see you were parting with you very nice Admiral's group until it was already gone. Did you trade it for this group?

 

 

Frank,

 

The tag on the back of the ribbons were from George Studley of Avon NY.

 

In the late 1930's George was active in quite a few Vet orginizations and sold his medal mounting services.

 

The attachment is old screwbacks

 

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites
Frank,

 

The tag on the back of the ribbons were from George Studley of Avon NY.

 

In the late 1930's George was active in quite a few Vet orginizations and sold his medal mounting services.

 

The attachment is old screwbacks

 

Bill

 

 

From 1951 Studley catalog

 

Bill

post-248-1182550244.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet Studley made that ribbon bar too. He probably sold the vet the French medals at the same time from his catalog.

 

I have had Studley mounted groups before too. The MO was the same. He removed the original ribbons and replaced them with longer ribbon to make the drapes look more uniform and hang nicely.

 

The funny thing about collectors of WWI and WWII US medals is that they prefer the medals un-mounted with the original ribbons and brooches intact ( especially if you have the original boxes too). Even if the mounting is old, having them in boxes un-mounted is better.

 

Collectors of British medals dont care. They are happier with mounted groups.

 

 

Kurt

Link to post
Share on other sites
IMPERIAL QUEST

Hi all,

While I can understand both sides of the argument here, and I honestly think there is merit on both sides. I try to look at it like this, if the veteran has his group mounted early after the awards were issued, resulting in new ribbons being affixed, I really don't have a problem with it.

 

Now, if I found out that these were mounted recently, by some third party or outside source, I would definitely frown on that and not at all be interested in owning them. The purple Heart, and Mexican Border Service were late 1930's original government issue numbered and engraved. Are we to diminish their value because they were authorized way after the actual occurence that waranted their award? If we are going to apply this reasoning, we should equally criticize a mint PH in the original box...after all it wasn't even authorized until 14 years after the end of the great war. What about the PH's that were awarded for Civil War and Spanish American War wounds...even mint and untouched- nothing about any part of the medal, ribbon, or box has any tangible connection to the 1860's or late 1890's.

 

Again, if given a choice, I would prefer that pieces remain as they were produced, that is the purist in me. But in this case, the recepient decided to mount his awards and wear them with pride. He obviously thought so much of them, that he used the actual awarded examples, and didn't have re-strikes mounted - that really says something, to me any way. My personal opinion is that we sometimes put way too much emphasis on dollar value on the actual objects, and not the historical value behind the pieces. What I have found about this fellow so far has been fascinating, and I hope to find out even more in the future.

 

As I told some of you, my friends, in private, Navy groups just do not speak to me the way that Army groups do. I bought my Brantly group for almost nothing...I know, some of you are saying "get all you can out of it, get the most money". My thinking however is this, I was blessed with a good deal, and I saw another grouping that I liked more. This enabled me to get a nice Pre-WW I/WW I grouping that I would not have been able to afford otherwise.

 

Was my group worth more? I think it was - monetarily, but my collection isn't about money and investment. I have been very fortunate to be able to obtain some nice items for ridiculously low prices over the years, so really I am not "out" any "profit". If Bill decides he does not like the Brantly grouping, he can send it back with no questions asked. I am sure that Bill, being the gentleman that I am sure he is, would extend me the same courtesy if the reverse were true. Thanks all for reading, and I really do respect all of your opinions thumbsup.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
IMPERIAL QUEST

Hi all,

 

I thought I would post a follow up since I have received this group. Actually, when I opened the box, what I saw, was better than I expected. Immediately, the ribbon drapes, and the overall appearance and feel of them said late 1930's to early 1940's to me. I blacklighted them front and back - not a stitch glowed. The screwback fittings and surrounding areas show age, the construction is obviously old, and the medals, although near mint, show light rub marks from touching other medals on the drape. The photo shown here might look like modern replacement ribbons, but in the hand - they are definitely NOT. The ribbon bars are the old style long pin, just as Bill said. They are all old stock as well.

 

The maroon box that holds this group, has done so probably since they were first mounted. The interior cream base flocking shows contact and impression marks for the ribbons as well as the medals that could only be made over a long time period. The underlying bar mount ribbons show contact marks from the overlapping medals on the first row. There is also the common slight greyish marks left on the sides of the box from medals moving against it.

 

Concerning the actual issues boxes shown, there is absolutely no wear or contact marks whatsoever in any of them. The flock bases are mint, and the interior sides are fresh, and clean with no rub marks. This is exactly what you would expect to find if the medals were removed from the original boxes when obtained, as they obviously were.

 

I would like to thank Bill for including a mountain of stamped and signed archive documents from the Penn. archives that include everything from Social Security records, to furlogh cards, to immediate report of casualty cards to authorization for the Mexican Border Service Medal. No stone was left unturned, and all of the records fully suport the grouping. In short, I am thrilled to have this grouping to a patriot who was wounded twice in combat, and lived to the ripe old age of 100 yrs. ;)

 

Thanks all for the input.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.